Kosovo Serbs to cut ties with UN

OK, so civil war and sectarian violence is on the up in Iraq, and in Afghanistan the situation appears to be deteriorating. But let's not forget another place we've recently meddled with...

BBC said:
Kosovo Serbs to cut ties with UN

Serbs in northern Kosovo say they will cut ties with the UN and provincial authorities because of a series of attacks against them.

Officials in four towns have declared a "state of emergency" in response to violence they blame on ethnic Albanian.

Full text here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5050792.stm
Now remind me again... What's the plan to bring peace to Kosovo? Ah yes! Give it independance from Serbia so the Albanians can feel 'safe and secure'. What's the plan to bring peace to Iraq and Afghanistan? Ah yes! Insist they all live together in a single state. Hmmmmm!
What about the safety and security of the indiginous Serbs who have had their land stolen from under them? The UN has been a party to ethnic cleansing in Kosovo.
Actually the UN has not been party to ethnic cleansing in Kosovo, try looking at the members of NATO who won the war on behalf of the Albanians thus unleashing the mass ethic cleaninsing of non-Albanians (not just Serbs) and then the members of the UNSC who ordered the UN to go in and try and run the place.

Once again the UN catches the blame.......... for doing as the UK, US etc tell them.
By failing to condemn the actions of the KLA, NATO, Clinton, Bliar et al, the UN was a party by default, the UN is also debating recognising Kosovo as an independant state thus legitimising the ethnic cleansing. The UN catches the blame because it is a corrupt and inept organisation not fit for purpose. Kosovo is now a haven for Islamic fundamenatlists... Bliar must be proud.
Warrior_Poet said:
By failing to condemn the actions of the KLA, NATO, Clinton, Bliar et al, the UN was a party by default, the UN is also debating recognising Kosovo as an independant state thus legitimising the ethnic cleansing. The UN catches the blame because it is a corrupt and inept organisation not fit for purpose. Kosovo is now a haven for Islamic fundamenatlists... Bliar must be proud.
And the alternative to an independent Kosovo is?

If you have any practical alternatives please send them to Blair then his minion in the UNSC can raise them.

The UN is only as effective as the member states want it to be or are willing to let it be.

I am fully convinced that one of the roles of the UN in the modern world is to be the whipping boy of the member states. The organisation to blame when no one else has any idea of how to deal with a situation, or is unwilling to do anything about a situation.

By the way I do work for the UN. I am neither corrupt or incompetent or inept, but I do spend a lot of time listening from total bollocks spoken about the UN by many people who have no idea of how it works and how it is controlled by the member states, particularly by the ones most vocal in their condemnation of it.

Is there corruption? Yes. Is there corruption in the British Army? Yes.
Is there incompetence? Yes. Is there incompetence in the British Army? Yes.
Are there problems? Yes. Are there problems in the British Army? Yes.

Do most UN staff want the UN reformed? Yes
Will the member states actually allow any practical improvements in the way the UN operates? Probably not.

I could go on and on about this, but it is easy for you to sling mud. Yet people on here whine like buggery when the British Army is unfairly slated as a whole because of the actions of a few. I have met murderers, child abusers, drunks, thieves, liars, cheats, rapists and others who were British soldiers.

Does that mean that the British Army should be scrapped?

How about this the British Army is responsible for allowing Kosovo to become a safe haven for Islamic fundamentalists. It was the British Army that kicked the Serbs out, not the UN?

Anyhow I have said my peice I am sure it will not have altered anyones opinion but hey that is the way it goes.
Kosovo is a legiimate and integral part of Serbia. The fact that the Serbs have been displaced by Albanian Muslims does not change that fact.

To put it into a UK context.... If Bradford decided it wanted to be an independant Islamic state, would it be acceptable? No? Thought not..... No different to Kosovo... If the UN is to be involved, it should be deporting the illegal Albanians back across the border into their own country and protecting the displaced Serbs.
I will not argue with views on the rights or wrongs of independence for Kosovo, there are some very good arguments both ways, and I am in no way a fan of the Albanians.

However, if you are right about the need to deport illegal Albanians back to their own country why have the P5 members not pushed for this to happen, come up with a mandate to do just that combined with the troop numbers required? Is it because they do not share your opinion? or is it that they are not interested? I suspect it would be the latter, safe in the knowledge if it all goes tits up - there is always the UN to blame.

You are illustrating my point about the UN - here you are blaming the UN for the policy of the member states. Again this also supports my view that part of the UN role is to be blamed for the results of policies which they have no control over.

This is exactly the same as blaming UK civil servents for the policies of the UK Government. It is not the civil service that makes the policy, it is their masters in the elected government. Or how about blaming the British Army for going into Iraq? We both know that the reality is such a policy decision lays firmly with the government of the day, yet somehow this thinking does not carry across to the UN.
I have wide experience of the UN on a personal level and my views of the organisation are coloured by my own experiences. There a three words which some up the inherrent corruption from the top down: Oil for Food.....

As for the Kosovo thing, we must never allow it to be independent. Serb sovereignty of its own territory must remain paramount. The implications for allowing foreigners to displace an indiginous population through terror and then to grant them legitimacy are obvious.
Have you read the full Vocker report into the allegations made about the Oil for Food Programme? I have.

My view, as bad as it was (and it was bad), it was in no way as bad as certain elements of the US administration would have us believe. Furthermore, it did reveal that the UN was willing to have itself examined and the result, warts and all, placed in the public domain. Very few UN staff were on the take, though some of the cash sums involved were huge. The vast majority of the staff peformed their work in an honest manner. I know no one in the UN who was not pleased that the criminals were exposed, had any immunities lifted by the SG, and some are now in prison.

Meanwhile, I note the lack of interest into a full investigation into the theft of masses of US money allocated to the re-building of Iaq by the US government, which I believe to be somewhat larger than the total OFF budget. Aparantly for some in the US, UN malpractice is to be highlighted at every opportunity, but fraud against the US is to be ignored as it may be seen as off message in terms if Iraq.

I hope that in the long run the Vocker report will be of great benefit to the UN. Now hopefully the world ill sit up and take notice, you cannot expect the UN to do everything on a shoe string and then complain when things do not turn out the way you want them to.

As I said I am employed by the UN and have been for about 13 years. Almost all the staff (including the unions) want the UN reformed, want the UN to be more efficient and effective. However, just as many are pessamistic, that there will be much progress, as the individual wants of the member states will lead to the dead hand of status quo being at the tiller.

Still at the end of it all - You can always blame the UN!
How come Koffi Anna hasn't resigned then? What about his son etc? The U.N. has no right to decide the future of Kosovo, it is a matter for the Serbs, they have every right to defend their territorial integrity. Why is the U.N even considering the issue?
Have to say I have great sympathy with both 'sides' of this interesting discussion. It doesnt sound as if any of the contributors are particularly happy at the way things are going, whoever's fault it might be.

Edit: I dont think InfMP's post below is in response to me! ;)
How about because the UN has to try to deal with the realities on the ground. As in the reality is that the Serbs for the most part are gone, and if I was a Serb I would make sure I got out of Kosovo as fast as I could be, because it will always be open season on them. I was there when they were being murdered. I was watching from the roof of the house I was living in as the Serbs were being dragged out of their homes and if they were lucky beaten, as their houses were torched. At one point I counted 11 houses burning in Pristina at th same time. My Albanian staff were opennly cheering.

You have to understand that the British Government along with others kicked the Serbs out of Kosovo, and those that were left behind were left to the mercies of the KLA and anyone else who wanted to have a go at them. This was not done by the UN. The UN was then instructed to go into Kosovo and provide a civil administration, including building a new police force from scratch. The troops reman under NATO command, as in they do not have to do anything the UN says or not says. They do co-operate with the UN when it is in their interests to do so.

The world in the form of the P5 has also instructed the UN to report on the governence aspects of the new Kosovo regime. It will not order the world to recognise Kosovo as an independent country. It will report on whether the governence is competent and (for want of a better word) honest enough to be demorcatic and functional. This will also be reported on by OSCE. Although I suspect that if the UN report is favourable the P5 will basically state that Kosovo is independent and the UN is to leave pronto. However, it is not the UN that has the final say.

Of course if you do not get the answer you want you will blame the UN just as the other side will blame the UN if they do not get the result they want.

As for Annan, he personally has done nothing that he should resign for. He should however, be giving his son a severe kicking for placing him in such an embarressing position. Have you actually read the Vocker report?

However, I expect none of what I say will change your view which appears to be everything, no matter what is that it is the UN fault.
Well we can blame Germany for it all, when they backed the Croats
independance from yugoslavia.
Who ever said the Germans wre trying to forget WW2 ?

Still cant get over Kosova why Nato needed to be there was beyond me,
and then they just sat back when the Albino's tryd to light up Macedonia.

Ah well stoopid is as stoopid does !
Warrior_Poet said:
How come Koffi Anna hasn't resigned then? What about his son etc? The U.N. has no right to decide the future of Kosovo, it is a matter for the Serbs, they have every right to defend their territorial integrity. Why is the U.N even considering the issue?
The UN will not decide the fate of Kosovo/Kosova. The Kosovo Albanians will do this with talks with Serbia. The UN in this respect is merely a facilitator.

I worked for UNMIK for last year, and bailed out due to corruption and incompetence at the highest levels of UNMIK. I also got bored by being continually shafted a Frog who was working against the UNMIK objectives: he took his orders from Paris almost every day (cnut).

My office had over 20 'Internationals'. These included Brits, South Africans, Ukrainians, Croats and Poles and the dirty stinking Frog. None were corrupt (except the Frenchman was morally bankrupt). Some were incompetant but still trying to do their best. The prime concern of most however was to get their contracts extended (fair enough).

The UN is its own worst enemy. Operations do not run the UN and decide policy; this is done by Member States and the Secretariat (yes, the administrators run the UN). Imagine if the entire British Army war fighting doctrine was written and created by blanket stackers, for blanket stackers with the opinion that all G3 people were a pain in the arrse because they kept asking for stuff that generated work?

The UN also fails to distinguish between nations as it is too PC. As a result in Kosovo (as I mentioned on this site previously), there are UN Police from Zimbabwe and other failed states. Are they there to do the job as best they can? Are they bunnies! They are there to make as much cash as possible. The UN is too weak (again, a fault of the Member States and the original construction of the UN) to tell various countries to poke it. Further more any person from an African/Middle East country can scream 'Racist' at the drop of a hat and it will be believed. Even if the person in question is caught with his co ck in a 6yr old girl he will still be believed ("you only arrested me because I am from Pakistan" was the claim of 3 policemen from that country caught selling and fcuking 6-10 yr old girls in Kosovo last year). Kofi Annan did the same when caught with his fingers in the till in Oil for Food. He lied and lied about his involvement and every lie was proved (he is also (STILL!) a director of the Isle of Man company where most of the cash went through on its way to the Solomon Islands and the Caymans... as is his son and his brother).

The UN is at fault in Kosovo. They have succeeded in making sure that almost no-one invests in the region, thus keeping unemployment at around 50%. The albanian diaspora sends back about 2billion USD to Kosovo annually, of which about 70% (some estimates are up to 80%) is dirty money. The UN has failed in all measurable ways to improve the economy or the infrastructure. but then if it did that, then they wouldn't need so many international consultants on 900GBP per day and the UN could have downsized by 60% some years ago.

Has the UN abandoned the Serbs? No more than NATO has (and by extention the UK and the British Army). The majority of attacks against Serbs in Kosovo are commited by.... wait for it... Serbs! Most are caused by squabbles between criminal gangs. The same is for attacks on Albanians. The local politicians try and make currancy from these attacks to hit out at the UN (who stops them from being the little dictators they want to be, and stops them from being as corrupt as they want). Also the Serbs are guilty about crying wolf too many times.

Do the Serbs deserve Kosovo? Not really. If you look back in history you will find that the land has always been changing hands, with preriodic Serb progroms against the albanians (needed as they breed like rats). Serbia tried repopulating Kosovo in the early and mid '90s with Serbs from Croatia and Bosnia. These Serbs rioted and caused hell in Belgrade until Milosovic gave them land in Vojvodina (the old part of Hungary that was granted to Serbia in 1920). Even Serbs do not want to live in Kosovo.

SO why the current level of violence? Because like two hungry dogs fighting over a rancid old bone, neither side has anything to loose. Perhaps if the unemployment rate was below 15% and peace offered real prospects for advancement, people might not be so willing to go to war.

Dealing with the issue of illegal Albanian immigrants in Kosovo: this is a smoke-screen and a non-issue. The number of 'Albanian Alabanians' in Kosovo (as opposed to 'Kosovo Albanians' or 'Kosovars') is small. Most of the immigration was legal in the old Yugoslavia (when Kosovo was largely self governing). Why did the population composition change so much between 1946 and 1990 (from being 90% Serb in the former to 90% Albanian in the latter)? Serbs average less than 2 children per married couple. Abortion is the norm. Albanians have huge families (12 is not un-common). There are cultural and historical reasons for these differences but I will not explain them here.


Though it is shite, the UN is not to blame for everything. If anyone is to blame, then it is old Slobodan. The Kosovan Albanians and the Kosovo Serbs need to find out a solution in partnership with Serbia.

There is no solution that will be acceptable to all parties.

If you think partition is the way forward, be prepared for many wars in the Balkans in the next few years (what of Hungarians in Romania, Serbs in Bulgaria, Bulgarians in Greece, Albanians in Greece and Montenegro, Serbs in Bosnia, Croats in Bosnia, etc)

PS Kofi Annan should not resign. He should be impeached and then shot, along with his extended family.

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