KOSB vs MOD - Round 1 KOSB

#1
http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=4612821

Campaigners Begin Court Battle to Save Regiments

By Russell Fallis, Scottish Press Association

Campaigners went to court today to challenge Government plans to merge two historic infantry regiments as part of a controversial defence shake-up.

Former defence secretary Geoff Hoon announced in December that Scotland’s six single-battalion infantry regiments would be restructured to form a five-battalion super-regiment.

The King’s Own Scottish Borderers and the Royal Scots will be brought together to form one battalion of the new Royal Regiment of Scotland, along with battalions of the Black Watch, the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders, the Royal Highland Fusiliers and the Highlanders.

But the Edinburgh branch of the KOSB Association launched a petition at the city’s sheriff court in February, claiming the merger plan was outside the minister’s powers.

They argue that since the KOSB was founded in 1689 by an order of the old pre-Union Scots Parliament that was never rescinded, an act of Parliament would be required to disband the regiment.


An initial procedural hearing was held in court this morning, watched by several members of the Edinburgh branch.

Brigadier Allan Alstead said afterwards he was pleased the case had got under way and hopeful the Government would reconsider its plans.

Speaking outside court, he said: “We hope that this does buy some time for matters outwith Edinburgh and the international community.

“The Government should rethink its options because it seems a very dangerous time to be cutting four battalions, particularly when the Australian and American armies are recruiting more infantry to deal with the various challenges across the world.”

Mr Hoon confirmed the Ministry of Defence restructuring plans on December 16 when he insisted change was essential to provide a more “agile, flexible and deployable” army, capable of meeting the evolving strategic challenges of the post-9/11 era.

The plan includes cutting the number of infanry battalions across the UK from 40 to 36, with the amalgamation of the smaller regiments into a series of regional “super-regiments”.

The petitioners’ case is due to return to the sheriff court on August 4.
 

Auld-Yin

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#3
They have the strongest case for argument by being the only Regiment whose Colonel (albeit by proxy given by quoted Brig) voted against amalgamation. Shame on all the other Colonels.
 
#5
Surely if the KOSB were

founded in 1689 by an order of the old pre-Union Scots Parliament that was never rescinded, an act of Parliament would be required to disband the regiment
then they are still be being paid by their old Colonel's family so they can give their pay back :wink:
 
#7
geezer said:
Fcuk 'em. How many English regiments bit the bullet in '92 Options for Change. Get used to it and quick!!
Aye but how many of them wish they had mounted a half way decent campaign to save themselves? At least the Scottish regiments will go down (if indeed they do - hope springs eternal) fighting.... well perhaps not the RHF... their Colonel seems to have his eye on much more important things than HIS regiment assuming the title 2RRS!

Hang in there KOSB yer no deid yet!
 
#8
Having been to a Scottish Brigade Recruiting Conference For the TA a couple of months back. I was told some interesting facts fron a member of scot div staff. For FAS to work the TA must be Fully manned by 2010(thats why there is an abundance of cash getting spent on TA recruitment).

Suprise Suprise. nobody wants to join the TA. You now have to notify your employer that you are either in, or are wanting to join the TA.

The chance of getting mobilised is putting potential recruits off.

Retention is Down by 37%.

There is a decline in persons of recruitable age due to a decline of birds getting PREGGERS. 15 Yrs ago. ( how selfish).( MOD Figures).

As it has been said in other forums, Labour see the TA as the Cheaper alternative( as the labour government called them, CASUAL LABOUR). The problem is that the CASUAL LABOUR will not be around as well as fully manned.


ANYWAY, THE MORAL OF THE BLETHERING IS KEEP FIGHTING !! THE BATTLE IS NOT OVER YET... WELL DONE THE KOSB

SANS PEUR
 
#9
Brigadier Allan Alstead said afterwards he was pleased the case had got under way and hopeful the Government would reconsider its plans.
He had weird and nasty ideas about what to do with the TA when he was COMD 51 HIGHLAND BDE,but it seems he has learned wisdom with advancing age.Well done SIR!!
 
#10
Hauld yer wisht Mon ! A maths test...6 Battalions each about 100 down, despite Fijiian input. 6 x 100 light is ...a Battalion ! They all have the right number of COs, OCs, WOs, SNCOs...it's just the Jocks who are missing and it is they who feel the true pain of overstretch (Och aye Cameron, I'll gie ye 14 Pl fae yer Iraq tour, why Angus yé did he same fae me last year).

The KOSB will adjust after the nettle sting wears off, so will the others, they have no option. Regtl Cols can posture but they can't fully recruit so their arguement is lost. I wonder about what they are going to do with all their Fijiians who remain..THEY certainly won't be taking any redundancy on offer as their wages are funding their national economy.

The KOSB will fight on...no change there then ...."stitch this !"
 

Auld-Yin

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#11
agoodgrouping said:
Hauld yer wisht Mon ! A maths test...6 Battalions each about 100 down, despite Fijiian input. 6 x 100 light is ...a Battalion ! They all have the right number of COs, OCs, WOs, SNCOs...it's just the Jocks who are missing and it is they who feel the true pain of overstretch (Och aye Cameron, I'll gie ye 14 Pl fae yer Iraq tour, why Angus yé did he same fae me last year).

The KOSB will adjust after the nettle sting wears off, so will the others, they have no option. Regtl Cols can posture but they can't fully recruit so their arguement is lost. I wonder about what they are going to do with all their Fijiians who remain..THEY certainly won't be taking any redundancy on offer as their wages are funding their national economy.

The KOSB will fight on...no change there then ...."stitch this !"
If the Scottish Bns are, as you say, the equivalent of 1 bn short - why on earth would anyone get redundancy?
 
#12
the simple fact of the matter is we like it as it was. I wasn't happy about amalgamating with the Queens Own but it happened.

This means that when my bairn is born (this october) and grows up should he wish to join the army he will be the first bloke in my family for over a hundred years not to put in some service with the Gordons.

Family and Tradition is strong in the Scottish regiments and the english County Regiments. When these ties are severed will our motives remain the same. I'm sure I'll fight just as hard and remain as proffessional as I always have but will future generations be as keen to enlist?

i'm not so sure. As ever we will have to do as we are told. Reforms and changes in the army have been going on since the army was raised but personally I think the local regimental system is what has made the army and i will be sad to see it go.

I love the army - Every day is like a pantomime (with me as the rather over the top villain) I love the regimental rivalry (face it the rest of you are all sh1te.)

we'll just have to see what happens. The thing that upsets me is that I can see a day when we'll no longer wear our kilts. (the pipes and drums will keep them for the tourists) I love the pageantry that the scottish regiments have. It's good that we are all different.

Ask yourself. if your lot looked like they were for the chop would you be pleased about it?
 
#13
If the Scottish regiments could recruit Scottish people into its Regiments instead of Fijieans and Gurkas, then perhaps they wouldn't be hit by so many reductions.

If you can't recruit - you deserve to go. :evil:
 
#14
Perhaps the block on recruiting which was imposed on us until recently was a little unfair if that is the standard?

Have you ever heard the expression that it is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt?
 
#15
how the hell can these cuts improve the recuiting as it is being claimed or improve any off the factors that they claim like mobilty......

alot of the lads around the perth/blair area that i have talked to seem to think of it as joining the regiment rather than joining the army
 
#17
agoodgrouping said:
Hauld yer wisht Mon ! A maths test...6 Battalions each about 100 down, despite Fijiian input. 6 x 100 light is ...a Battalion !
Where do you get your figure? Information posted here on this topic a short time back was not 100 down each.

Also, Fijians are not recruited into "English" Bns and the Corps any more?
Were 'English' Bns not the first to recruit Fijians?
Why is it Fijians seem to be counted by some as ABFWOP?
 
#18
OK:

a.get the figures from Scot Inf MCM Div by Battalion and publish it here then. How many of these Inf soldiers are FE and deployable too, they have been playing the numbers game for years. Bad knees, welfare dramas, fat QMs staff and OCs who will never deign to attend and pass ITDs "I am so busy, just put me down as attended and passed Colour"


b. Fijiaans are taken into Eng Bns but they are also being cut ? Corps are not the same situation.

c.I think the RHF/Royal Scots started off the late 90s strategy after a visit there by a Capt ? the mass influx into Jock Battalions was surely no accident, it helped with ethinic quota and rugby prizes

d.ABFWOP, not an acronym I am familiar with. Explain

You are missing the point, if you cannot fully recruit from local interest then the Bn is dying...you know I am right so get real and adjust
 
#19
agoodgrouping said:
OK:

a.get the figures from Scot Inf MCM Div by Battalion and publish it here then. How many of these Inf soldiers are FE and deployable too, they have been playing the numbers game for years. Bad knees, welfare dramas, fat QMs staff and OCs who will never deign to attend and pass ITDs "I am so busy, just put me down as attended and passed Colour"

You are the one making the claim. You do the work.


b. Fijiaans are taken into Eng Bns but they are also being cut ? Corps are not the same situation.

You are suggesting there are absolutely no Fijians or other non-locals in English Regiments?

c.I think the RHF/Royal Scots started off the late 90s strategy after a visit there by a Capt ? the mass influx into Jock Battalions was surely no accident, it helped with ethinic quota and rugby prizes

You may find, if you look, that there were Fijians recruited in the '60s and '70s into English Regiments and the Corps. But I suppose since that was then it doesn't count now.

d.ABFWOP, not an acronym I am familiar with. Explain

I'm sure you can figure it out, but you won't find it in any manual

You are missing the point, if you cannot fully recruit from local interest then the Bn is dying...you know I am right so get real and adjust
Do I know you are right? Are you right? Have all Regiments until now always recruited from local interest?
 
#20
hellfire said:
If the Scottish regiments could recruit Scottish people into its Regiments instead of Fijieans and Gurkas, then perhaps they wouldn't be hit by so many reductions.

If you can't recruit - you deserve to go. :evil:
BOLLOCKS! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

1BW got 26 fijians in late 1999/ early 2000,less than a platoons worth. So which wonderfully elitist part of the uk do your mob recruit from??

Felixthefox has got the mentality of the lads bang on!!
 

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