Discussion in 'DIY' started by annie1969, Apr 15, 2013.
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Does Anyone fit kitchens in the Ayrshire area thats not doing anything this week?
It used to be my trade until 02 but its a bit far for me otherwise I'd offer to help you out. I'm doing the inlaws one in grantham next week according to my missus which is nice of me. means I've got to spend this week sorting my kit out and replace the drum in a washing machine.
Aww thanks and go the Mrs ha ha. Just spoke to a guy on the phone who has one of his joiners finishing in a school today and was then going to send him to his other guy who is fitting a kitchen but can send him here instead, just got to hope the price is right. Think I may be being a bitch, the guy doing the kitchen is my friends husband. He's meant to finish today but is telling me won't be here till next week. The utility isn't started and the kitchen is only half done so there no way it was getting finished today.
You know when you just misread something? Thought you were looking for a Kitten Fighter. 'Doesn't seem fair' I thought, but I'd have helped you out.
Ha ha ha ha ha thanks for making me laugh today
going rate is still about 200 quid a day all in if you have to haggle, less if its just one bloke as joiners are on about 13 quid an hour and there is a massive difference between a joiner and a fitter but I guess you have to know what you're looking at.
joiners tend to build and fit one unit at a time, a fitter will think three days ahead get everything ready inside and out doing the simple stuff which saves time down the line before the first unit goes in, most will do your non gas plumbing but few bother with electrics now.
if you want to save a bit of time and money then make the units up, set the drawers and stick the hinge plates on loose while you are doing it. even though it was my business I used to go in the garage and do the bulk of the making up leaving the apprentice to rip out then begin the fit. a good average fit with two should take 3-4 days, with one around 6-7 if someone is there to give a hand lifting stuff like the tops.
if his two guys are used to working together then it should work out okay. make sure the put enough bloody plinth clips on and screw anything from behind so its hidden, screw caps are not acceptable - ever. coving and light pelmet fits better if its screwed from inside the wall unit and also strengthens the cupboard. a nice 6mm head gold passivated screw finished flush looks lovely and neat.
some joiners use impact drivers all the time out of laziness which isn't good for kitchen carcases as they are made too cheaply - a pilot hole and regular drill works much better IMO.
I reckon I did around 250+ kitchens during my 10 or so years at it so any issues let me know - in short if it doesn't look right then it probably isn't so ask them. give em a brew an hour or leave kit out for them and throw in a bit of cake every now and again, but don't stand and watch when they get going or they will find a way to cover you with sawdust
So I was being conned by mates husband, 2k to kit 19 units, worktop and sink. Utility is to have 8 units 1 stud wall and a sink. No electrics or gas as Im keeping cooker and dishwasher, there only 1 wall unit, 2 150ml pull out units, end pannels pelmets and kick board to do in kitchen and the whole utility.
joiners now think they can make up figures and they like 2000 for some reason. they take the figures you would have been charged by B&Q except the fitter would see less than half that. most of the profit the sheds make on kitchens is from the fitting charges. it used to be worse they would charge the same as the kitchen price for installation.
if you want to haggle then a good price is 35 per unit which includes fitting, cutting down, pelmet, cornice, plinth, appliance spaces and the putting the appliances in them but not the supply and feeds, 150 quid for laminate tops including cutouts 200 quid if they fit the sink in the hole properly.
it's ikea not poggenpohl or pws kit (no offense)
if it was moben they would be on 12.50 a unit, howdens used to be 17.50 a unit.
the problem is they think they have you over a barrel despite construction being in crisis and joiners out of work, the sheds tell you months for the fitter because they cant get fitters to work for them at what they will pay. I did my dads last year for him and kutchenhaus got most upset when he didn't want to pay £2,500 for fitting even though I reckon they overcharged him on the kitchen by more than that (messy divorce so he wont deal with my mum). they think they are worth 20 odd pound an hour for doing an 10 pound an hour job.
if you were getting a solid wood kitchen with pillasters finials decor ends etc... granite/timber tops and upstands where you wanted someone who knew their job properly then I'd pay the 2k. and more for yours though (no offence but its classed as hanging boxes on walls - not proper fitting) I'd get it as close to a 1000 for the kitchen which is roughly what I put above and 2-400 for the utility unless its more than a galley design.
a good team with no plumbing, electrics or faffy appliances should take 3 days, a day for the utility I reckon and a spare day just in case. I could do two a week including plumbing, electrics and integrated appliances when working flat out with someone I knew.
and any damages come out of their liability insurance so check everything before hand as you will have little comeback from ikea and they will argue the toss or cover it up and hope you don't notice. as soon as a door is drilled for a handle they rarely take them back.
So what your saying for the work left I should be paying no more than £500 top end? The new Joiner has come and been sent packing he quoted £1,400. No offence taken it is just box on shelves. The utility will have the old kitchen which was all solid cabinets made to measure, wish I could remember the name of the company.
The problem is that there is the 'trade rate' and the 'customer rate'.
Most in the trade will charge, or quote, the 'customer rate'. Unless you are a good friend or related.
An Ikea unit takes around 15 to 20 minutes to bang together and I always glue all the meeting edges to increase strength, but then nowadays I use a compressor powered huuuuge stapler to affix the back panel in about 30 seconds. AND, I am slow compared to blokes who do the job day in, day out.
Your problem will be finding someone who will do it for what they get from B&Q/Ikea/Moben/magnet as they will all squeeze the quote up towards 'customer rate'.
Just to cheer you up, US side you are looking at around $35,000 - $45,000 for everything, supplied, fitted, installed, to include cheap granite counter tops. They don't move for less than $75 - $100 an hour - I had an electric work quote that equated to $1250 an hour for 3 men.
its common for tradesmen to up the price if they don't want the job as they will often get the work anyway. my mum used to price bathrooms that way as she makes no money on the fittings unlike some companies. because the customer liked us and new us they would usually go with it because it was still cheaper than the alternative.
when I used to price for her and my own work I did a fair rate for a fair job. the average base fit price was around 800 quid.
it astounds me that they complain they haven't got enough work on then price the job for you to pay them to sit at home for the rest of the month. that's why the polish picked up all the work before they got used to the lazy arse way of doing things.
come up with your price make it reasonable and stick to it. as soon as they start rubbing their chin and sucking their teeth tell them to fcuk off IMO. if you have a plumber doing work for you see if he wants to do it for a bit extra and a flat rate, some are quite competant.
I was working last year with joiners who couldn't believe they'd wangled a regular 13 quid an hour with overtime rates as most had been lucky to work one week a month for the previous year. its not your fault there's no work out there. construction is picking up but not that much and trades need to get back to the idea of working for a living. most got fussy and refused to work on private houses because they were slow tricky dirty and fiddly compared to the easy cowboy site work. I as always getting asked by the site foreman for one developer to snag his houses because the joiners had buggered off elsewhere, usually because they'd messed something up and didn't want to put it right like the 2 foot extra they sawed off a staircase on one job. or the one where he had gone round drilling holes for old fashion latches in the hand made unpainted arched oak doors but got them in the wrong place.
My mum complains that the guy who has worked for her since I moved south wants 22 quid an hour when she can get better fitters who she has known for 20 odd years for half that, he worked with me and the other fitter before hand so if anything he owes her for upping his game fourfold as he was just a site joiner before that. 10 years and he doesn't even send her a xmas card.
If I drove then I'd make good money commuting up to do her work but I didn't like working alone so made sure I employed a driver/trainee to look after the van while I looked after the kit and customers. it's because I don't drive cars that I haven't offered, although I did consider posting my fancy tool boxes up to you and riding up on the bike as I'm nice like that and the weather is getting better.
Have you tried Ratedpeople. I've found it quite helpful at getting a reasonable deal and if they have good ratings it gives you some rope to hang them with if they balls anything up.
I got 12 units, wooden work tops and three appliances done all in for 400.
Took two lads two days.
Although next time I do the kitchen I'll be taking a week off work and doing it myself as I put three units in the utility room since then and found it a doddle.
The only slightly challenging part was cutting the worktop.
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If you are in Ayrshire, can you cut my grass as well please, and im looking for a good painter and decorator to do my hall (serious about the hall)
its not rocket science and much easier if someone gives you a primer so let me know when you get serious. you can get away with a joiner to do you some tops to save learning a new skill and it is a skill with a decent joint much better than a joining strip, some suppliers will cut tops to your template though.
coving, pelmet plinth and fillers you can do yourself as a decent flip saw is about 40 quid to rent for a weekend, I'd just get a 60 tooth blade although usually they give you a sharp blade and its amazing what you can do with a 24 tooth sharp blade.
the commonest error is diyers assuming the walls of their house are flat, square and plumb along with the floors so putting too many fixings in. all you need is a fixing at the start and at the end of a run, with the units screwed to each other and the worktops they will never go anywhere unless you have an earthquake. you only scribe the seen ends all the others can be cut away to leave a tag at the top which makes trimming easier or adding an extra fixing. the habit of winding wall units back to the wall out of plumb and level is the commonest cause of badly hung doors.
I think the worst two jobs I did were a kitchen where I had to remove the plasterboard and sit the units into the wall back to the blockwork to get over a 3 inch out of square corner (as it had proper cross corner unit so I needed the right angle unlike the base). and a persimmon house doing the bedroom where the floor had a three inch dip and the wall was 2 inches out from top to bottom. as it was an mfi job there was no scope for adjustment so it had to go as it did, it might have been better if the units went wall to wall.
I didn't get any blame but both customers were spitting feathers.
for carcasing my mum still uses custom made kitchens at thorne nr doncaster but they are funny about delivering outside of the a1 though. they can do doors as well but their carcases are proper kit worthy of 20+ years of use.
I've got the grainite man coming tomorrow to template the worksurfaces for me.
Grumbles is right about out of plumb, dips and wobbly walls, its a nightmare sometimes. I have a 1.5 inch wobble on a 10.5 foot run of worksurface which is why the bloke is coming to template for me ..... its in with the price, but ordinarily I'd have picked up some semi-finished worksurface and dropped that down more cheaply.
Here they want to work for a couple of days then take the rest of the month off. Thats if you can find any decent trades to start with which is also nearly impossible.
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