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Kings Div East-West split = merger for KORBR,Kings and QLR

What a buggers muddle. What shall they be known as? My vote is "M6 Rifles"

Reckon a Kings/ Cheshires merger would be a better match.

Disband the QLR and let a Bn of the RRF take their troops renaming them the Queens Lancashire Fusiliers. QLR only got formed last Tuesday and have suffered more amalgamations than soft mick so one more will not hurt.

Merge the KORBR with the Frankies. Both are Officered by posh northeners and soldiered by hard northeners. Forget this West v East pennines rubbish. I served in both. They would get on.

Dukes and PWO could come together without too much fuss.

Needless to say the old Divisional system should go. Too devisive. Jobs for the ROs and ineffectual to boot. They had a place when Strensall was open for business but now what is the point?

What say you?
So if the QLR go, who's gonna take over as the Queens Last Resort??
KOB, QLR, PWO, GH AND DWR to merg into the Reformed "Yorks and Lancs" anyone?
Just an idea
It's going to be known as the Lancashire and Borderers Regiment.

Here's an article from the Daily Telegraph explaining Hoon's Reforms in relation to FAS.

Hoon wins his regimental campaign

Defence Secretary gets his Army reforms and his backers say they will bring more stability to soldiers' families. Michael Smith reports

Reforms of the British Army to amalgamate all 19 single-battalion famous name regiments will see the formation of seven regionally based multi-battalion regiments.

Gen Sir Mike Jackson, Chief of General Staff, believes the creation of multi-battalion regiments will maximise both the retention of such soldiers and efficiency.

His reforms will signal the end of the arms plot, the complicated scheme under which Army regiments are rotated between roles, moving every few years to new bases.

They will see one battalion of a regiment based in the region from which it recruits, something that was deemed impossible under the arms plot, while the other is based in Germany.

The move will replicate the Cardwell reforms, instituted in the 1870s, which divided Britain into 69 regimental districts, permanently basing one of the battalions at home while the second served in India.

Geoff Hoon, the Defence Secretary, has pushed his two previous Chiefs of General Staff to make such reforms but has been rebuffed because of the effect on the regimental system.

"There has always been the feeling that if you get rid of the arms plot you get rid of the regimental system," one senior officer said. "But that's not true at all."

The single-battalion regiments will keep their names, he said, albeit only as a subordinate part of their titles. The Royal Scots would for example become 1st Battalion (The Royal Scots) the Lowland Regiment.

They will also be allowed to keep their individual traditions within the battalion and will continue to wear their own mess dress and Number 1 dress uniform, which are in the distinctive regimental colours.

It remains unclear what regions the new regiments would cover but the most likely option is the Highlands and Lowlands in Scotland, Wales, Yorkshire, Lancashire and Cumbria, the Midlands and Wessex.

Under such a scheme, the Royal Highland Fusiliers, the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders, the Black Watch and the Highlanders would be merged into a single two-battalion Highland Regiment.

The Royal Scots and the King's Own Scottish Borderers would become a two-battalion Lowland Regiment.

The King's Own Border Regiment, the King's Regiment and the Queen's Lancashire Regiment would become a single Lancashire and Border Regiment. It is unclear whether it would have two or three battalions.

A similar situation exists in Yorkshire where the Prince of Wales's Own Regiment, the Green Howards and the Duke of Wellington's would be amalgamated into a two or three-battalion Yorkshire Regiment.

In Wales, the Royal Welch Fusiliers and the Royal Regiment of Wales would combine to form a two-battalion Welsh Regiment.

The Devonshire and Dorset Regiment would merge with the Royal Gloucestershire, Berkshire and Wiltshire Regiment to form a two-battalion Wessex Regiment.

The Cheshire Regiment, the Worcestershire and Sherwood Foresters Regiment, and the Staffordshire Regiment would be merged into a two or three-battalion Mercian Regiment.

East Anglia, the South-East and southern England are already represented by two multi-battalioned regiments, the Royal Anglians and the Princess of Wales Royal Regiment.

Although the loss of the individual regiments is bound to cause an uproar, Army chiefs say the abolition of the arms plot will bring a major improvement to both efficiency and manning.

The current constant moving of regiments from base to base causes massive disruption to the lives of soldiers and their families, with wives and partners forced to lose their jobs and children to move schools.

The long-term effect has been a regular exodus of the highly experienced married NCOs and promising junior officers who the Army is anxious to keep. The new system will provide a permanent home base that will allow married soldiers to give their families stability
hackle said:
Styron, what is the date of that article? It is well behind the curve as to the Scottish Regiments.
It was the original artical about 1-2 months ago.

Yorks and Lancs regt? A 2-3 Bn Dukes Own Green Yorkshire Wellies regt more likely


I was really suprised that the Scottish Colonels went for the Large/Large option, as it allows for more cuts later on without so much fuss. Maybe, as has been suggested, this is political smoke and mirrors so that the Army Board can actually recommend a Highland and Lowland 2 Bn each and so as to look like they are retaining some sort of recognisable Regtl System.

If Large/Large is they true way its going, this opens a whole can of worms for those Regts NOT in the frame RGJ and LI? PWRR and RANGLIANS?.....
exXIX said:
Cpl_ripper said:
KOB, QLR, PWO, GH AND DWR to merg into the Reformed "Yorks and Lancs" anyone?
Just an idea
Works for me Ripper. Not sure how the Kingos or Cumbrians would like it.
Got it all wrong. Regt history from here]http://www.burmastar.org.uk/yorkslancs.htm

It may not be commonly understood that the title of the York and Lancaster Regiment does not derive from the Cities or the Shires, but from landed property of the two Duchies in South Yorkshire. It was wholly a Yorkshire regiment, recruiting in Sheffield, Barnsley, Rotherham and district
The Hallamshire Battalion (the former 4th, as mentioned) served with the 49th Division through­out the war and, like the 1st Battalion, had its baptism of fire in Norway in 1940. After two years in Iceland, and training at home, the battalion landed in Normandy on ‘D + 4’ and fought from then until Arnhem with little respite
Suprised they didn't claim the bridge aswell (which I believe they did take) but in 1945.
Styron, what is the date of that article? It is well behind the curve as to the Scottish Regiments.
Your right in respect of the Scottish Regiments but as far as the English Regiments I think it is probably nearer the mark.

The most likely new amalgamated regiments would be:

Lancashire Borderers

Mercian Regiment

Wessex Regiment

Yorkshire Regiment

Guards Regiment?

Hers's a more recent article from the mighty Cumberland Star (Snigger)

The FULL Story...
Published on 08/10/2004

By Chris Musson

THE death knell was sounded for the King’s Own Royal Border Regiment this week after a meeting of Army colonels from across the North of England.

Only the unlikely intervention of the Defence Secretary can now save the 300-year-old regiment from being amalgamated with the Queen’s Lancashire Regiment and the King’s Regiment of Manchester and Liverpool.

It is not yet clear if the historic Border name will survive, as the three regiments must now thrash out the make-up of the new “super regiment” between themselves, in what promises to be a difficult diplomatic process.

The Queen’s Lancashire Regiment has already set out its stall – it says the new regiment would be made up mainly of Lancashire or Old Lancashire regiments, and therefore the Red Rose county should dominate any new name.

The reshuffle, as part of the defence review announced by the Government in July, is expected to take place by 2008.

Currently the three North West regiments each have one infantry battalion of 650 troops when at full strength.

At the Council of Colonels meeting in London’s Army and Navy Club, KORBR’s Colonel Mike Griffiths reluctantly agreed that his troops would become part of a single North West regiment with just two battalions.

The reduction in troops will come through natural wastage over the next four years and by soldiers being deployed to other regiments either permanently or through extra-regimental duties.

Another plan to merge all six Northern regiments – three either side of the Pennines – was shelved, and the meeting concluded that Yorkshire’s three battalions remain intact as another super regiment.

KORBR’s Colonel Simon Strickland said: “The provisional decision was that three battalions would remain in Yorkshire, and two in the North West.

“We are in negotiations now for an amalgamation with the Queen’s Lancashire Regiment and the King’s Regiment (Liverpool).

“This was based on a whole range of factors, including population, recruitment potential, history, previous amalgamations, and other factors.

“The actual decision on details for the new North West regiment is not confirmed, although there are proposals being put forward.”

Colonel Strickland was reluctant to reveal names being discussed for the super regiment and its battalions, though it is understood KORBR will press for the retention of its name in some form.

But the discussions are likely to be fraught with tension. Already the Queen’s Lancashire Regiment has made its position plain, saying its name must remain. Spokesman Roger Goodwin argued that six-sevenths of the three regiments’ total recruits are from Lancashire or Old Lancashire.

He said: “The QLR will insist the special and specific relationship with the county of Lancashire is maintained. That will include the title and the Red Rose of Lancashire as the cap badge. That is not for debate.”

Last night, KORBR chiefs were meeting in London to talk tactics on how the 300-year-old regiment can retain its identity.

They will argue with the other two North West regiments that KORBR is the most senior regiment out of the three, and that recruiting from Cumbria will be near-impossible without a title linking to the Border country. But the others will cite their own long histories and battle honours and that KORBR has been consistently below strength and has struggled to recruit soldiers.

A date for a meeting between the three regiments has yet to be set.

Previously one super regiment with five battalions, stretching across a giant swathe of the North, had been favoured by KORBR chiefs and also its soldiers, who are currently based in Luffenham, Leicestershire. The Northern colonels’ plans are now being rubber-stamped and have to be passed to the Army Board by October 27.

They will then be submitted to Defence Secretary Geoff Hoon, who is likely to make his final decision before Christmas.

The News & Star’s Save KORBR petition, presented to Downing Street last month, was signed by 30,000 people. It asks that the regiment remains as it is, or if not, that the name remains as part of a new regiment.
From the article above:

"But the discussions are likely to be fraught with tension. Already the Queen’s Lancashire Regiment has made its position plain, saying its name must remain. Spokesman Roger Goodwin argued that six-sevenths of the three regiments’ total recruits are from Lancashire or Old Lancashire.

He said: “The QLR will insist the special and specific relationship with the county of Lancashire is maintained. That will include the title and the Red Rose of Lancashire as the cap badge. That is not for debate.” "

I am shaking my head in despair. These old duffers should look to the future, not squabble about names.

Face it. The old regiment is gone forever. Come up with something new and snappy and move on.

Buggers muddle.
nitpicking i know, but Luffenham, Leicestershire.,
should read luffenham Rutland, the uks smallest county. only **** cos i used to live nearby and my mum lives down the road from them, but before ye ask, doesnt do soldiers favours :wink: :lol:
Styron said:
Mercian Regiment
Hmm why pick a title that has little to do with the make up of the regiment, Mercian Regt = Royal Brummie Regt. Most WFR's are from Notts/Derbys, plus I know quite a few from Notts/Derbys having to join Cheshires/Staffs.

I'd actually prefer to be a Angleiron

p.s. Royal South Danelaw and Mercia Regt maybe acceptable
sorry I shouldn't post after drinking beer.......

but ... what about a demerger and merge

lincs/leicesters leave anglians (traitors for joining in the first place) joining the South Danelaw/North Midland/5 Boroughs Regt with the Notts/Derbys(Sherwood Foresters) and Staffs

Worcestershire leave WFR's and merge with the cheshires to form replace the Lincs/Leicesters in the Anglians

Historical bit : Merica = Angles, 5 Boroughs = Jutes = South Danelaw

soz again ... stella has a lot to answer for
The Mercian Volunteers and the Wessex's both have a good service record and both covered a wide area which fot the Mercians included the Midlands, Staffs and Cheshire. The Wessex's covered all the west country through to the home counties.

The Anglians are themselves a product of a 1964 Amalgamation and in this respect were the forerunners of the new FAS philosophy, although I bet there was an equal amount of protest at the time to what as now evoloved in to a fine regiment. :wink:
Whole thing's a disgrace. The Yorkshire regiments have looked to save their own skins by marginalising the 'West of Pennines' - a fatuos division at best, it won't save their skins from future cuts - 3rd Bns of all regiments will be first to go next time round.

If we end the current system, we should bite the bullet and create a functional 'corps of infantry', managed and recruited centrally. Local ties will not survive this planned half-breed abortion. New psychological and moral drivers will need to be found to replace the cohesion that will be lost - and this can only be done through training. With a 100000 man army, we should be the legions of sparta. Insert some P Company and Commando tests at the end of PCBC and ITC Warminster, and recreate the INfantry as an elite, rapidly deployable ever-ready organisation with units for any environment, and reorganise for functional operational reasons - not political and resource reasons.
It breaks my heart to say this. I will shed a bitter tear when the red diamond is broken.
Styron said:
The Wessex's covered all the west country through to the home counties.
Weren't 1 and 2 Wessex TA battalions?


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