KGVI and Frimley Leadership Course

Discussion in 'ACF' started by Gunner_REMF, Oct 19, 2007.

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  1. If an individual is appointed as an AI within 2 years of leaving the Regular Army and was a SNCO/WO does he/she have to do the the KGVI or even the Frimley Leadership course, can ayone throw some light on this subject? I have a potential AI who fits the "bill"

  2. A lot depends on commandants discression and the discression of the instructor in question. I knew an ex WO1 who never had to do any of these courses, but I knew an ex C/Sgt who did. I don't know the official rules but I met a guy on my KGVI who had done his PSBC and was asked by the training team what he was doing there. I would venture that courses relating to how we deal with cadets, children's act etc should be done by all, but courses such as KGVI which basically teach ex regs to suckeggs should not be mandatory. Once again it opens up the question of having courses appropriate to volunteers backgrounds.
  3. "Officially", that is according to the manual (AC 14233 - ACF Manual), the only people exempt anything are those who have served in a Cadet Training Team within two years preceeding joining the ACF, and from memory I think it only applies to Ex WO's.

    The information is certainly in the manual anyway.

    The only "leadership" course I know of run at Frimley is for Cadets rather than adults and nobody has to do KGVI, The ITC and the Adult Instructors Course at Frimley are both compulsory, but KGVI isn't.

    I am aware that some counties disregard the rules for some people though.
  4. papegojan,
    An argument put to me recently, which I confess I had not considered before was;

    The ACF is not the Army nor part of it. It has no control, input or say in the training and assessment of soldiers.

    However, it does have a duty of care to its adults and cadets and must be able to show that it has excercised that duty of care. The only practical way of doing so, in a way where it can demonstrate that it has done so, is through its own training and assessment. Consequently we have to suck a few eggs.

    Nonetheless I still can't see why there cannot be some fasttrack assessment unless it is just administratively uneconomic.
  5. Even ex regular SNCO's learn a lot on these courses. It's not just about the green stuff though, some of the Exercise Instructions and RASPs and EASPs are common to the regular army and cadets, not every SNCO will be current in these areas when they leave the army.

    To use pyrotechnics in the ACF it is compulsory to be KGVI qualified. Many counties do ignore this, remember though if something kicks off on your watch, it is your fault. Remember Clare Shore? Her tragic death changed the way the ACF do things, it is not the regular army.
  6. I have a mate who is a 22 yr ex reg WO1 with an inf background who is but a humble SI, and he loves it! He did the ITC, AIs course KG VI and every other thing the ACF has to offer. He is better qualified in mil skills than anyone in his county, has more gongs than the rest put together and quietly gets on with what it's all about, providing 1st class training to the kids.

    He explains his way of thinking to me as 'I only have a mouth to feed, not a mouith and ego'.

    If there's a laid down way to get from A to B, why try and take a short cut just because you USED to be someone in the REAL army? Isn't ACF adult trg about learning and for the craik too?
  7. The courses at Frimley are massively useful in making the often difficult transition from soldier to army-oriented youth worker. As various people on this forum endlessly point out, cadeting ain't soldiering.

    As an ex-regular officer, I learnt more useful stuff about cadeting from an ex-cadet RSM now ACF 2Lt than from my regular service.

    In part, it's a matter of attitude - the realisation that there is no operational imperative for cadets - and in part it's unlearning skills and drills where they differ from the APC syllabus.

    All that said, ex-regulars/TA "get" the Army way of doing things in a way that ex-cadets, parents and other volunteers sometimes don't, and are invaulable to preventing the ACF from becoming scouts in DPM.
  8. GwaiLo. You are of course right about the KGVI not being a andatory course. I worded what I sai very baly. My excuse is that t is a long long time sincde I was at school. As to the issu of duty of care. Again, I concur with what you say. I was only stating things I hd encountered. What I should have said was that courses which pertain directly to cadet issues should be attended by all, irrespective of background, but areas of courses that teach ex regs for example to do ehat they have beendoing for years should be amended. At a basic level, I did my KGVI in 1998. When I did it, the CCF officers on that course did different elements to the ACF staff. Maybe run courses in that fashion?
  9. I appreciate your thoughts guys, it looks like different counties do different things in many different ways and that aint gonna change, I also agree that serving JNCOs/SNCOs/WOs (who wish to join the ACF as an AI on discharge) should attend courses within the ACF. When I left the regular Army I also attended the AITC (to go with the flow) and learned nothing from it. I had expected to learn something about "cadeting" but instead I found myself standing in at short notice for CTT member who had gone sick and acting as a mentor for students with lesser strengths. I didn't really mean for this thread to be a debate but I'm sure some of us lesser mortals will learn something whether we have an ego or mouth to feed.

  10. You know i was DSing an Ex CSGT CTT down at CTC only been out the mob a year and he was back doing his AI's, just go down for the crack, there was a also a student (capt) (LE) WO1 also on the course
  11. Did they learn anything new or were they there for the craic?

    Quis Separabit
  12. he was told he had to attend , he seem to enjoy himself
  13. Army Code 71310 - ACF - CUSTOMS OF THE SERVICE

    1.015. "Those with appropriate previous military service may apply to be commissioned officers on joining, while those with limited or no provious military service may apply for a commission after gaining experience as an AI. An AI who joins the ACF within 5 years of leaving regular service may be accepted, if a Warrant Officer, as a Sergeant Major Instructor (SMI), or, if a Staff Sergeant/Sergeant as a Staff sergeant Instructor (SSI), subject to a vacancy being available."

    1.016. "All Officers and AIs are expected to enhance their skills by attending courses and participating in collective adult training sessions throughout their ACF service"

    Clear as MUD
  14. I wouldn't have wanted to be without the ex-regs on my courses. We made them laugh and they made us laugh. F*ck did we laugh.
  15. When did you go SIlverstoat? Who was your squad DS? It's such a nice place, I hope the rumours aren't true.