Kenneth Williams 1985 "Brexit" debate

TheAssassin

Old-Salt
Just watching this Thames TV debate on EEC and UKs conditions from 1985, it is more reasonable than anything that has been brought up past few years

If Brexit referendum was in 1985, may have been a landslide for leaving.

and yes I did a Jarrod search, not because of Kenneth Williams though.

 

morsk

LE
Stop mucking about
 
Another Brexit thread?

(I'll watch it later)

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 
Just watching this Thames TV debate on EEC and UKs conditions from 1985, it is more reasonable than anything that has been brought up past few years

If Brexit referendum was in 1985, may have been a landslide for leaving.
A few random thoughts.

1. 1973. The UK was led into the EEC by Heath. There was no Referendum on this. I believe that this was because WW2 was still very fresh in the memory of the UK Public and it would have been a resounding NO.

2. 1975. Confirmatory Referendum. 2 years in and I believe that these first 2 years were beneficial to the UK. Whether that was by accident or design is for you to decide.

3. 1985. The year of the video. Many had now seen the direction of travel that the EEC / EU was heading in, and did not like it. Was the EEC / EU beneficial to the UK between 1975 and 1985 ? It is interesting to note that not once has the UK ever received more than they have paid in.

190708_historic_spending.png

4. Since the late 70's / early 80's, the mantra has been that the EEC / EU is wonderful / Utopia, which is why

a. 45ish and below, most people are Pro - EU
b. 45ish and above, most people are Anti - EU

5. 2016. The desperation shown by both the EU ( Institutions ) and certain elements of the UK, in trying to thwart / cancel / stop / overturn / block by using the Courts in carrying out the result of the Referendum. To my mind, only shows that once the UK leaves the EU, there will never be a valid / good enough reason to rejoin the EU in it's current form / direction of travel.
 
I love watching old stuff from the archives. It is interesting that the arguements for and against have not changed much.
 
A few random thoughts.

1. 1973. The UK was led into the EEC by Heath. There was no Referendum on this. I believe that this was because WW2 was still very fresh in the memory of the UK Public and it would have been a resounding NO.

2. 1975. Confirmatory Referendum. 2 years in and I believe that these first 2 years were beneficial to the UK. Whether that was by accident or design is for you to decide.

3. 1985. The year of the video. Many had now seen the direction of travel that the EEC / EU was heading in, and did not like it. Was the EEC / EU beneficial to the UK between 1975 and 1985 ? It is interesting to note that not once has the UK ever received more than they have paid in.

View attachment 440936

4. Since the late 70's / early 80's, the mantra has been that the EEC / EU is wonderful / Utopia, which is why

a. 45ish and below, most people are Pro - EU
b. 45ish and above, most people are Anti - EU

5. 2016. The desperation shown by both the EU ( Institutions ) and certain elements of the UK, in trying to thwart / cancel / stop / overturn / block by using the Courts in carrying out the result of the Referendum. To my mind, only shows that once the UK leaves the EU, there will never be a valid / good enough reason to rejoin the EU in it's current form / direction of travel.
On various Brexit threads I've posted more or less what you've just said. Other than some giving a *politicians answer, no argument from even the most ardent remainers. Why? Like you I quoted facts, not beliefs. I think your post will have the same effect.

*ignore, deflect.
 
On various Brexit threads I've posted more or less what you've just said. Other than some giving a *politicians answer, no argument from even the most ardent remainers. Why? Like you I quoted facts, not beliefs. I think your post will have the same effect.

*ignore, deflect.
Well, almost every point in his post contains the statement “I believe” or “to my mind” or some other assertion. There are precious few facts there to counter.
 
Well, almost every point in his post contains the statement “I believe” or “to my mind” or some other assertion. There are precious few facts there to counter.

A few random thoughts.

1. 1973. The UK was led into the EEC by Heath. There was no Referendum on this.

2. 1975. Confirmatory Referendum.

3. 1985. The year of the video. Many had now seen the direction of travel that the EEC / EU was heading in, and did not like it.

View attachment 440936

4. Since the late 70's / early 80's, the mantra has been that the EEC / EU is wonderful / Utopia, which is why

a. 45ish and below, most people are Pro - EU
b. 45ish and above, most people are Anti - EU

5. 2016. The desperation shown by both the EU ( Institutions ) and certain elements of the UK, in trying to thwart / cancel / stop / overturn / block by using the Courts in carrying out the result of the Referendum.
All he did was put his opinion to facts he quoted. Like to show where the facts as I've amended them are wrong?
 
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I’m not sure what you were hoping to prove, but points 3, 4 and 5 are still articles of faith rather than facts. Point 1 is uncontroversial. The fad for referenda is a recent one in UK politics, and, I believe, a transient one.
 
I love watching old stuff from the archives. It is interesting that the arguements for and against have not changed much.
Had you not picked that up recently with project fears recycled doom and gloom stirys
 
I’m not sure what you were hoping to prove, but points 3, 4 and 5 are still articles of faith rather than facts. Point 1 is uncontroversial. The fad for referenda is a recent one in UK politics, and, I believe, a transient one.
point 3 not an article of faith. Less than 10 years after being taken in, people were not happy with the way things were shaping up.
4 ditto. The reason it's mostly the elder generation who're anti EU is because the younger generation have only known life under the EU.
5ditto.WTF!? You think the last 3+ years of not fulfilling the biggest turnout than any election is an act of faith? And it wasn't a result of certain politicians, and others, trying to overturning /ignore that result? Really?
 
I love watching old stuff from the archives. It is interesting that the arguements for and against have not changed much.
Neither have the people who've made the argument changed much either. For some weird reasons it's the effeminate types that are pro-EU, and the more self-reliant - tougher - types that are pro-Brexit.

I first noticed this while watching a Brexit stall in Cardiff. I could almost predict who would take an offered leaflet and who would walk off 'with a huffy attitude'.

It was always - without fail - the camp looking guys that refused a Brexit leaflet.
 
point 3 not an article of faith. Less than 10 years after being taken in, people were not happy with the way things were shaping up.
4 ditto. The reason it's mostly the elder generation who're anti EU is because the younger generation have only known life under the EU.
5ditto.WTF!? You think the last 3+ years of not fulfilling the biggest turnout than any election is an act of faith? And it wasn't a result of certain politicians, and others, trying to overturning /ignore that result? Really?
Point of order there. Let’s get factually correct here. According to opinion polling people regretted their decision within 12 months of joining the EEC.



Also age may be a factor, but age is always a factor. Younger people tend to vote labour and older people tend to vote conservative. However that doesn’t mean that as older people die out the conservatives are never going to win. Peoples opinions change over time.
 
Point of order there. Let’s get factually correct here. According to opinion polling people regretted their decision within 12 months of joining the EEC.

Peoples opinions change over time.
Point of order to your point of order. Not meaning to be pedantic, but I'm going by memory, faulty as that may be, not an opinion poll. I realise your poo strengthens my argument, however I do my best to go by facts as I know/understand them.

I have no problem with peoples opinion changing over time. I have a major problem with people who don't like a democratic vote being ignored in a short space of time.
 

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