Kember got what he deserved - Col Collins

Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by OldSnowy, May 9, 2006.

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  1. Damn Right! Kember was an idiot to go there

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  2. No! He was making a stand for Peace

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  3. Not only an idiot, but should be billed for the Rescue Op

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  1. OldSnowy

    OldSnowy LE Moderator Book Reviewer

    The retired Col and current rent-a-quote Col Collins:

    'He Got What he Deserved'
    Updated: 03:45, Tuesday May 09, 2006
    Former Army colonel Tim Collins has said peace activist Norman Kember "got what he deserved" when he was kidnapped in Baghdad.
    Mr Kember should have stuck to helping Christian groups in other areas of the country, rather than "hobnobbing with Sunni extremists", Colonel Collins told the Oxford Union.
    He also called Mr Kember "bloody naive" and "very lucky" not to have been killed.
    Mr Kember, 74, of north-west London, was seized together with four other peace activists in Baghdad in November.
    One of the men, American Tom Fox, was found dead in Baghdad two weeks before the others were freed in a multi-national military operation involving the SAS and other forces in late March.
    Commenting on Col Collins' rebuke of Mr Kember, peace activist Maureen Jack defended the committed Christian.
    The part time volunteer with Christian Peacemaker Teams said: "My own view is that if you are unaware of the risks, if you don't take the effort to acquaint yourself with the risks and go out there, that's naive.
    "If you go in knowing and accepting the risks, as I believe the four men did, I don't think its naive.
    "I think that people who are moved to do this and make the commitment like Norman Kember did, do so in acceptance of the risks because they feel there are more things more important then their personal safety."

    Copyright Sky News

    http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-13522799,00.html

    Sound words there, I feel - but obviously others do not. I especially like the bit at the end by the apologist - there are things more important than their own safety - yes, the safety of all the poor bsatards who risk their lives getting info on his whereabouts, negotiating with hoods, and rescuing him.

    What's the ARRSE view?
     
  2. I agree with what he said %100, it just might have been better if he hadn't said it publicly, no matter how true it is. He's setting himself up with a bullseye for criticism
     
  3. Quote from the Sky News report:

    In which case you are open to being called stupid. Accepting the risk in this case meant accepting the real risk of death. Did they really accept the risk and did their families?

    In which case in retrospect does he feel the same now having experienced the reality? If he still thinks it the right thing to do then why is he not back over there following his original judgement?

    He was a do-gooder who felt that that somehow provided them with a cloke of protection. Welcome to the real world mate. Collins is on the money.
     
  4. From Skynews:
    At least Kember actually had the commitment to go over there. This clown just gobs of in the safety of UK. Almost the same as the mad Imans who tell there underlings to go and blow themselves up but don't actually "lead" the way.

    Kember et al, had no real idea of the dangers they faced. They were naively believing that they would be protected by their status and by lots of prayer (a fact betrayed by the amount of thanks the well wishers and prayers got on his release, nutjobs).

    Many people accept risks throughtot their lives, soldiers almost daily when in Iraq. The difference is knowing the risks, mitagating as many as possible and then making the judgement.

    Not.

    "Norman, you could get captured, decapitated and our bodies left in the sun."

    "Don't worry, I have my travel Bible. I accept the risks."

    These clowns need to take a serious look at the dangers. What about the female aid worker (hassan? I can't remember her name) she had lived there for years, married to an Iraqi, and was helping the community. I would have thought that she had a far superior grasp to the situation than these Christian Peace Teams. Yet she was still kidnapped and killed, what do they think will happen?
     
  5. Let me start by agreeing that Kember is/was a prat. That is the view of many people. However, he went out and did something. He may not have known the risks. He may have known them but discounted them on the grounds of 'won't happen to me'
    Had he been a soldier in Collins regt, he would not have had the choice.
     
  6. True ORC, but he would also have had a better insight on the situation and better back up. Not perfect back up just better.
     
  7. Kember is a fool. His naivety was astounding. How would he have felt if some of the troops rolled a seven while rescuing him. He had no place in Baghdad. He was seen as an infidel, and rightly so. He is free to risk his life, but we (as a nation) have an obligation to protect him. Did he receive FCO advice? I'm sure it would say

    "Didn't you see what happened to Ken Bigley you bible thumping t*t?"
     
  8. Just checked the FCO website and guess what it says as advice to all those who wish to visit Iraq?

    FCO website
    You mean his tamborine wasn't a valid countermeasure to the fundaMentalists?
     
  9. Whether or not Kember truly understood the risk he was taking, it was his decision to go, despite the warnings from the FCO and in defiance of common sense (if he has any). If he had any understanding of Islamic fundamentalists he would have known that they don’t even follow their own religion when it’s inconvenient for them – the Koran says that Christians and Jews are “people of the book” who should be treated better than other “infidels”, and he must have been a complete t0sser to not realise they weren’t going to do that.

    Fine, that was his choice, but as a pacifist god-botherer, he should not have expected anyone to use armed force to rescue him. We should have respected his principles and not rescued him and his friends. He chose to walk through the Valley of Death - it should have been his god that protected him, not the British army.
     
  10. Cutaway

    Cutaway LE Reviewer

    Criticism. Hmmm...

    [​IMG]

    Is this the face that gives a rat's arse ?
     
  11. 100% correct

    Wish there were more like him in the Pollie factory
     
  12. Criticism is healthy and Col. Collins seems the kind of chap who actively encourages it. But in the case of his views on Kember there can be little criticism of value surely? I have yet to meet anyone who empathises with Kember's idiocy. Kember's old enough (I intentionally didn't use the word 'wise' !) to know that us Brits do not abandon our own, so, despite his bravado stating he did not want military intervention if taken hostage he must have known the likelihood of his wishes being adhered to be small, thus betraying his own pacifist beliefs.

    Whilst having the courage of your convictions is usually admirable, in the face of the knowledge we have of the islamic extremists I wonder if deep down he actually hoped to be a martyr for his cause.
     
  13. To be fair to the tw@t, he agrees with you on this - hence the ingratitude for being rescued.
     
  14. He is a damned fool, much like any civvie fool that goes out there!

    I have no problem with the civvies going out there and doing their "bit" but the bollox our forces has to go through after one of their kind has been captured is enormous. Man hours put into searching for them, collation of Int and then the Op itself... 8O

    Thanks a bunch to all those nob-heads who think everyone in Iraq is capable of compassion and kindness and get captured for everyone to see. CNUTS!!!!
     
  15. spike7451

    spike7451 RIP

    And the intelligence to tell him it was a dangerous area,Both from the Slime & his own kind! (Did I really just say the Slime were intelligent? 8O )