Keeping it together - Second Attempt

Discussion in 'ARRSE: Site Issues' started by The_Lord_Flasheart_IX, May 22, 2007.

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  1. A valiant effort, sm. You've actually clinched quite a few issues there.

    I, and others used to post as per your para 5 but it doesn't appear to be welcome anymore. Guidance from Command would be appreciated to the way they want this site to go. I'm all for towing the party line so long as the line is fair, logical and just.

    The site cannot be run along the lines of a military unit due to the large cross section of members. Some think it should be an autocratic unit with the usual CoC observed. Impossible when you have such a diverse community freely posting thier own opinions.

    Folks, please dont trash this thread or start another 'Free the Arrse one etc'. Its pointless and detracts from what we, the members are trying to make this site.
  2. Sticking up for your mates.
  3. Agreed. A commendable post SM, and Flash.
    So what can we do about it the issues then?
    As you stated flash, a directive from the CO's wouldnt go amiss.
    SM, you did a good thing with your anti troll mod, but unfortunately this has brought about other issues.
    These are obviously nothing new, they must have been brewing for a while.
    So members of ARRSE, what can be done?
  4. Fugly

    Fugly LE DirtyBAT

    You're absolutely right here.

    Unfortunately your only option left to you if you feel the CoC has got it utterly wrong, will not back down, and you are aggrieved by it, is to request posting elsewhere.

    Unfortunately, there is no other site as unique as this one. This (now very personal) problem is a huge stain on the success of Arrse, and unfortunately the stain is spreading.

    The site needs a few issues addressing:
    - Proper use of the Troll-mod. A lot of itchy fingers on the new toy, methinks.
    - Bans for the more persistant trolls.
    - Better rights for the Moderators.
    - A more approachable CoC. Sorry CO's, but you are very quick to respond to praise for site improvement, but on matters such as this I believe you need to listen to your Moderators and senior members a bit more, instead of lashing out at Flash yet again. Bear in mind the vast majority of this site enjoy his input, it is only the small element (who the troll-mod was created for in the first place) who stir things up with him.
  5. we can play the 'blame game' till ...whenever. what we need to do is take steps to reduce the animosity between certain contributors to this site.

    1. remove all the 'free the arrse one' crap.
    2. accept that this site belongs to the COs and we are all here as their guests.
    3. pay for a good night out for the COs and flashy so they can get drunk and 'get it out of their systems' by beating the crap out of each other (or shagging each other senseless).
    4. the COs and the users on this site will have to get used to how the new feature will work in practice. give it a few weeks.

    cant be bothered to think of more steps.

  6. I think your spot on there, fugly.
    Everyone is human, and obviously ARRSE is not the be all and end all of their existance.
    CO's, perhaps if you cant find the time to adress issues/concerns, then what about appointing a trusted mod as another Admin?
    Also, I think a few more moderators wouldnt go amiss.
    Ones which have no personal vendettas (the majority seem to) or ones which spend alot of time on here.
  7. Before posting on this thread, please read the request on my first post and do not try to derail it. Keep your personal grievances to any of the many other threads already covering them.

    Thank you very much.
  8. Good CO

    Good CO LE Admin

    Spunkymonkeys' post about site content is very true - some of what is on arrse is not good for the image of the army or the site users. There have been threads that I absolutely loathe on the site (vast majority left to run without my interference before I'm accused of censorship).

    We try to deal with this by the Rough / Sensible split in the site and having a small team of mods, but we cannot and will not try to impose a strict censorship regime - the site has to take its own course based on what the majority of users want to say. You also have to remember that 60% of what we all say in a day is small talk and crap - the site (rightly) reflects this. Where it does suffer beyond that is that many people love being controversial and provocative as anonymous users on the internet, but that's just something that goes with the territory - like it or not.

    For the post asking for direction - its is very clearly laid down in the site rules. Basically it's 'use the site, enjoy it and don't break the golden rules of no direct identification and no breaches of opsec', plus a few others to try and keep the sensible bits sensible and the rough bits rough and liberal.

    As for the everyone must 'toe the line' melodrama, I really do not read all users posts and make sure that they don't disagree with my opinions. Honest.

    Trolls and extreme idiots? Wouldn't be anywhere near as much of an issue if (as pointed out by skicarver) people did actually ignore them. We know that account deletion is simply not a deterrent unless you value a username - not something applicable to most new trolls. So, as active measures we:

    1) Give oxygen thief tags with "ignore this user" written in bigletters
    2) Delete some accounts
    3) Tested one ignore system then went ahead with a different one - spunkymonkey's excellent mod.

    And other than that I am screwed. Pleasing all the people is simply impossible. We tried spunkymonkeys mod and within a day the very person who hates them so much and is very busy letting everyone know was complaining like hell that he couldn't see the trolls' posts and doing everything possible to stop it working!

    Site content - mainly reflects soldiers talk with all the good and bad points, and with a very limited amount of censorship in the interests of keeping the site running. There are trolls, idiots, the offensive, walts and god knows what, but this is the internet and there's only so much we can do.

    Yes there are plenty of users I would like to see the back of (sparkylass / blondebint I would give a bodypart to be rid of you), but achieving that is very difficult and not one that me issuing more rules and policies will make any easier.

    In general I think the majority of site content is fine and the popularity of ARRSE is testament to that. The problems are there and grow in proportion to use of course, and we've tried our best to tackle these with the measures I mentioned above. Also it's worth remembering that many of the problems get far more limelight than they deserve and the silent majority ignore them and just get on and enjoy the site.
  9. Thanks for the full reply, GCO, hopefully most will take some of it onboard. Equally, there is a lot of truth in Flashy's reply about whichever incarnation it was asking people to give it a chance after the missing pages were cured.

    My balls-up on the original code, I didn't anticipate the sheer number of posts that would be culled from tagging 2 people. But it did lend a little weight to his original campaign so maybe not too surprising that his initial reaction was "I told you so"?

    But none of that alters the essential problem of where the site is heading. The COs, no doubt, have their own aspirations for their trainset and the users have hopes for the site as well. For the site to get as big as it is, there has to be a hell of a lot of common ground in there.

    What seems a crying shame is that, as GCO said, the vast majority just enjoy the site and lot of what they enjoy undoubtedly comes from a vocal minority of users who give the site it's flavour. But the first impression that most get is created by a tiny part of that small minority who seem intent on childishly displaying the worst, most destructive, side of squaddie temperament at all times.

    For all he's done, I don't believe anyone could put Flashy in that last category but he's become the focus for a lot of their vandal-like behaviour.

    And, no, I'm not after a MOD job. I'd do it if asked because I think ARRSE is worth a little effort but I have better use for my time than watching over playground squabbles.
  10. Unfortunately, Moody, a lot of people do enter despite the warning signs and, whether fair or not, will judge according to what they see. It may be called the "Naafi" but it's got a front door with no ID checks right onto the local high street.

    There's also a fairly clear distinction between having a good, rowdy night in the Naafi and throwing all the furniture through the windows - even on the most relaxed camp, the second one will (I assume still) land you in the Guardroom for the night. Especially if there are civilians present when you do it. When that happens, the best thing to do is say "sorry, Sir" and remember to keep your head down for a while ;)
  11. I don't think there is anything wrong with the site, as it grows its bound to upset some of the founder members and some of the original posters, roll with it or leave. There is little point in bickering and arguing about it.

    Yes mistakes are made, but find an organisation where they aren't (apart from mine as I am perfect)

    Occasionally I agree with the COs direction occasionally I don't doesn't matter.... if I don't like it I no where the 'log off' button is.

    As for the NAAFI, I think its fair to say that its been killed off completely, I was one of the biggest mouths in campaigning to make it better, make it an environment where forces and ex forces could banter..... sadly its been diluted by civpop and toilet bowls, they have always been there but now the membership size makes it impossible to keep up with and moderate, hence me standing down.

    I didn't want to be associated with the NAAFI bar as it was.

    I do still enjoy the site, but thats due to a different part of the site where the elements I don't want to be part of can't lurk.

    The moderators do a thankless task.... its a no win situation people whine if we culled, people whined if we didn't, people whined if it wasn't like it used to be, people whined if we didn't allow for change. I think I can speak from a reasonable vantage point I modded for nearly five years.

    I think GCO personally is a good egg, I've had my run ins with BCO but thats between he and I and not for open discussion on here. Don't be quick to dismiss them or the site, without them, their hard work, financial input and long hours, the site wouldn't be half as good as it is.

    GCO makes a good point about the majority of users scooting over the trivial issues that carry on in the arrsehole, 400 logged in at many times during the day, hearing the same six or seven people spouting off isn't going to bring the world tumbling down.
  12. Good CO

    Good CO LE Admin

    Thanks for the feedback on the NAAFI Bar MDN, and it makes me wonder how to overcome the weight of posts in it. It could be divided with moderation split, and I would have no objection to this if it would help in some way.

    As for civpops and toilet bowls we probably come back to the private military only section idea, but we know that this is extremely difficult to manage for a large site, and of course the rules of who gets in would be like deciding who gets the Jubilee Medal.

    There is some precedence in this in the Longdon Bar, but I couldn't comment on the success or otherwise.

    A system that some forums use to try to influence junk levels is Karma, where the quality of people's posts is open to comment and too much negative feedback results in a ban of some sort. I don't know if this would help and the added complications may not be ideal for ARRSE's main target audience - the perhaps not-so-IT-geek Tom.

    I'll conclude this one by saying that I know that there is always room for improvement, and I am always open to suggestions of how to do it. What I don't want to start thought is an anti-civpop / walt / wanabee campaign on the site. They're not the target audience but they may be after signing on the line in the future.
  13. WELL SAID!!!!
  14. As a WALT......I concur what as been most things in life "the first casualty is the truth"......................
  15. Good CO

    Good CO LE Admin

    OK, I've just posted this in the mods forum, but will add it here for Cait and MDN's comment particularly but open for all (sorry for hijacking your thread slightly SM).

    What about making the NAAFI Bar a private forum but everyone is a member of the group with access by default. If you post drivel in there you get kicked from the group?