Keeping Firearms in the Armoury at work....

Discussion in 'Shooting, Hunting and Fishing' started by 303SMLE, Jan 9, 2010.

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  1. I have heard of, and met, a good handful of people who have kept shotguns in their unit armouries whilst living in, with no dramas. However, I want to keep my stalking rifle at work (its currently at my parents at the other end of the country.) so I can use it more easily.

    I've asked around and everyone seems happy with the procedure for the gun itself...photocopy of FAC etc etc. However, no one can give me a sensible suggestion regarding secure ammunition storage. Does anyone have any experience of this?

    So far, the proffered solutions have been to either tell the FEO that my rifle and ammo are being secured on MOD premises, keep the ammo under my bed and hope he never checks...or my favoured option which is to install a small safe in my room in the mess. (This should fly with the mess manager as I can leave the keys for the next occupant of my room)

    Does anyone know what chapter and verse actually is on this, or where I should start looking to find it?
  2. Never had a problem with this; if you have permission to keep rifle/shotgun in the armoury, perhaps keeping the bolt/working parts elsewhere, they're safe. Always kept ammunition in a lockable box either in the Mess or MQ, never a problem with plod.
  3. Law says you must take reasonable steps to ensure the security of ammo and rifle.

    The exact method by which you achieve this is up to the FEO to approve/decline.

    A bolted-down cabinet in a locked room on a military base should be fine as long as you have permission from the landlord (mess manager) to drill holes in the wall and fit such a cabinet, which you say won't be a problem in your case.

    Indeed, keeping ammo just in a locked case, not even bolted down may be acceptable so long as the room is never left unlocked. It's up to your FEO to approve/decline, so only s/he can give a definitive answer of what they will approve as they all interpret "secure" slightly differently, and of course every person's circumstances are slightly different.
  4. ugly

    ugly LE Moderator

    Never ever leave keys with anyone else or tell anyone else where the keys are, this is seen as breaking the secure storage rules by all FEO's I know off!
  5. My meaning was, that if I fit a small wall safe in my room in the mess, when I move out of the room (into a pad, probably 8O ) I can hand the keys to the next guy and he can use it for passports/documents/drugs or whatever else he wants.

    As I see it, having a small safe fitted in ones room is a useful feature for anyone, hopefully the mess manager will see it that way too.

    Just a thought, has anyone ever just had their/a gun cabinet in the mess?

    Cheers for the replies mind.
  6. in_the_cheapseats

    in_the_cheapseats LE Moderator

    Pretty sure the holding of firearms in what is accommodation, isn't allowed. Even the silver room wasn't classed as good enough. The Mess shotguns got to live in the Bn armoury as well.

    Got to ask - Why bother with all the expense of this when you have a perfectly good unit armoury somewhere on the base you are on to use?
  7. In pads part of the license to occupy states something along the lines of not storing ammunition and firearms. I would look it out, but I can't be arrsed at this time of night. I'm sure ammo is also banned from being stored within single accommodation/messes.
  8. Sad spotter's answer:
    If you want to hold ammo on MOD property, even your own ammo, it has to comply with military security regulations. Generally speaking, this means that it has to be secured in a Class 3 room, which is an ammo store in everyday language. There are exceptions, such as a 24 hour manned guardroom, but that's usually only a temporary solution and you won't find many QMs who would agree to it for permanent storage.
    Same with weapons by the way, which have to be declared to the CO and included on regular checks. There are gun cabinets that meet the requirement (Zugil being the favourite), but again, it is unlikely you would get permission to store it in the Mess even if you were prepared to pay out for one - they don't come cheap either.
  9. OK, I admit that I'm a bit confused....perhaps Army armouries are different from RAF ones, but I've been keeping both my rifles and ammo in our station armoury for years. Rifles go into the armoury itself, and I give the armourers a locked ammo box (secured with a padlock) and they enter it into the book as a sealed ammo container for safe keeping and it goes into the ammo store. It seems to work pretty well, and there's never been an issue. They do the same for all the other guys. Can your armoury not do something similar? Ticks all the boxes as far as my FLO is concerned.
  10. Cheers, thats cleared a few things up, or maybe not.

    I only started thinking down the 'safe in the room' route as people were suggesting that it was the best solution for ammo storage...if I'm going to put an ammo safe in, I might as well drill a few more holes and put the whole thing in.

    There is only one other individual in my Battalion who keeps a private weapon at work, a shotgun, and as such he has no idea about ammunition storage for Sect 1 weapons. He was of the opinion though, that there was no mechanism for securely storing private sporting ammunition in the ammunition store as it would not be an officially recognised ammunition nature, and would have no associated storage guidelines etc etc etc. As he's my Company Commander, I assumed he must have some idea what he's on about.

    I shall have a root around and see if I can come up with chapter and verse on this.
  11. ugly

    ugly LE Moderator

    Most sensible option as it means plod have to trust the military storage and access rules.
  12. in_the_cheapseats

    in_the_cheapseats LE Moderator

    More fool you! HIs answer is garbage. Shotgun ammo not officially ammunition?

    Try telling that to plod/RMP when they come calling.

    Do as you say you will and go find chapter and verse. Then go and tell your OC just how wrong he is. You'll be saving him his career :D
  13. He doesn't keep it on camp, and there's no storage requirements for shotgun ammo with Civplod, I used to keep 500 12 bore cartridges in my wardrobe and my FEO didn't give one.
  14. ugly

    ugly LE Moderator

    There is a small requirement regarding out of the reach of children!