Discussion in 'OTC and ACF' started by robber25, Jul 19, 2005.

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  1. Im new to this forum so il say hello...HELLO..

    Right Cadets aged 12????
    whats it all about??
    is it a ploy by the ACFA to say we got more Cadets?
    From experience i know that some 12 year olds hold their own and are quite clued up but the majority ive found are not.
    Not only are they imature in mind but also when really small have difficulty in some training.
    Joining the cadets at 13 used to be quite grown up.. but with the enforced age reduction has caused the outlook and standards to slip.
    The other day i was training some Basic lads and lasses and their was 2 girls about 3ft 5 and the build of a pencil! now im the first to overcome problems and fight through but some things just cant be....How for instance are these 2 girls ment to hold a No8 rifle or put a bergen on their back and tab?
    Because some hapless DC has let them into the system without useing their loaf and saying come back in a year has ment we Instructors have more to worry about..........put ACF entry back to 13....whoes with me?
  2. maninblack

    maninblack LE Book Reviewer

    I hate to admit this but you have posted something based on a kernel of common sense.

    The 12 year limit has caused a rainstorm of shite to fall on detachments due to the major maturity between 12 and 3 year olds.

    The concept of 15 year old 4 star cadets is looming.....with all the increased maturity issues.......they can't even carry webbing at 12 due to physical development.
  3. Remember what cadets are really about and that is simply giving kids an insight in to the army. Any military skills they need to know they will learn in basic training. Being an over confident ex cadet can be a hindrance in training.

    No one expects 12 year old kids to pass a Brecon 2 miler

  4. When I joined the ACF, there was the inevitable feeling of grown-up-ness and it became "one of those things" that, as I was now 13, I could do.

    However, the night I joined, two lads came down (mates of one of the existing cadets) and said they were 12 but wanted to join. The AI asked when they'd be 13, and they said something like "10 months"... and they were allowed in! Quite a blow to the ego of this previously-"grown-up"-feeling 13-year-old, I can tell you :cry: :wink:

    I understand that at the time this enforced-age-reduction wasn't in effect, so where would this stand in terms of... legality?
  5. i totally agree, another problem as well is wasted time in training them, in my experience the highest turnover rate of cadets has always been the 12 yo recruits and 1 star group, resulting in admin nightmare in getting the uniform back if the have been issued one by then, i much prefer 13 as it means training time is better invested, uniform is easier as most of them have gone through their initial growth spurt and then grow gradually after that, many 12 to haven't grown out of their primary school metality as it could have been 6 months since they went into secondary education.
  6. Remember what cadets are really about and that is simply giving kids an insight in to the army.

    Sorry mate but i disagree.....The ACF is based on a progressive training system not a look at life build a go-cart and decorate it with glitter................
    at 12 you should belooking forward to next year when you can start training.....not sobbing your heart out at camp cos you miss yer mum and or pop-tarts!

  7. The correct interpretation is year 8, the school year they become 13...

    E.g. two mates same class for year one, one birthday is Jan the other May. Old way one can join in Jan the other has to wait until May, same same year, same class at school.

    New way, both can join in September, the year they enter year 8. They will have been in the ACF for 10 months before camp comes round and both will be 13...

    Like everything is down to how the rule is applied and more importantly, monitored...

    They should also change the leaving age to, last camp as 17 year old.
  8. I agree with you, by and large the idea is bo****ks. Most of the 12 and some of the 13 year olds are no way prepared for the culture shock. They should stick to scouts and guides until they are mature enough to undertake a two week absence from home without blubbing.
  9. I agree with you that it is progressive training and not just a look at life but that is the whole point behind Cadets is to give people an idea what the army might be like in order to recruit more soldiers and Keep the Army firmly in the public eye. This is particularly important at the pre school leaver level because we get a lot of soldiers from this group.

    The cadets will learn basic skills but as I said any one joining the army will be retrained (correctly for the army) whether they need it or not

  10. What age do the Sea and Air Cadets take recruits in? Might it have a little bit to do with the ACF loosing Cadets that join the other Cadet services? I agree in the "Old Days" when we took Cadets on at 13, but most Dets had some at 12.5 waiting to get to 13, the system worked very well.

    I left the ACF last year, After 5 years as a Cadet, then 5 years regular service, and a further 10 years as a Adult Instructor I felt that it was time to move on.

    Cadets gave me a good insite into the Army, and made me want to join up when I left School, I felt it gave me a little better chance of passing basic training, and at times it did help. But Cadets have changed, and the people within the system need to change with it.
  11. Well ive been an Instructor a long time and im off to annual next week ,and i bet there are hords of mini kids with combat jackets the size of tents fresh faced and training on small arms...........keep it teenage....the Army Cadets is a grown up world.....
  12. Dwill was spot on with what he said - the age rulings were changed to allow for fairness within the year group, not to boost our numbers with 12 year olds, and they made a lot of sense, so that school friends could join together at the same time.

    Cadets have been lying about their ages for years and all parents do is sign the form. There are those that wouldn't check if their son / daughter has put the correct DOB down. If you are concerned about the age of a cadet then checking with the parent what school year they are in is a lot simpler and makes for a fairer system.

    Many cadets do not start serious growing until the age of 14 or 15 and some do not grow much at all (i'm still tiny as an instructor and seem to have coped with the pressure!). Therefore size is not a major factor in the debate over 12/13 year old cadet joiners.

    What is the question is maturity - cadets learn fastest from their peers and will soon learn their boundaries from those senior cadets above them, and those that the instructors set. This comes down to us Staff to oversee and encourage the correct behaviour. A cadet is not immune to guidance, just because he is 6 months younger than the next.

    And yes - there is the added factor that cadets are progressing through the syllabus earlier. However, there are still restrictions on SCIC and other courses in that you have to be 16 to attend them. It is, undoubtedly being addressed by the ACF and I already, make sure there are various activities saved for the Seniors to ensure they stay.

    My personal aim as an instructor is to see cadets learn and develop skills that they will use in the future (whatever they go on to do) with fun and safe training. I don't see it as an insight into the army, only that we use army-type activities in our training. If I can keep a Yr 8 pupil out of trouble, motivated and enjoying his/her free time, whether they are 12 or 13, i'll have done my job.

    If i've sent anyone to asleep, i apologise - have a habit of going on!
  13. The joining age to certainly be returned to 13.

    Our Det took in a lot of 12 year olds, I strongly disagree with taking them in at that age due to the lack of maturity, utter lack of physical ability, not being able to find uniforms that even half-way fit them and pretty much not been able to do with them APC wise. Some of these lads would go outside and 'play' during canteen breaks!

    I also think taking in females should be at the Det's OCs discretion, but thats mostly because my Det is all male staff and getting female cover for Det w/e's is a pain, along with all the other problems associated with having female cadets.
  14. They could always sit in the canteen and smoke fags with 'Older' lads

    LOL stop talking out of your arrse, Its a Youth Organastion And what would happen if the OC was a female? Do females eat any different? do they sh1t out of the middle of there backs? No. Grow up and get real
  15. keeping on the keep it teenage theme.

    last night i had to dismiss 2 recruits.

    why ?

    they are 12 yo , no problem in that, however they had a serious attitude and maturity problem, they have been told to stop messing about, they disrespect the NCOs, don't bring pens and paper in, one has actually lost his temper swore at the NCOs and gave the NCOs the finger and storming off leaving the gate open (this is a TA centre) not once but twice.

    in spite of my warning and trying to point them in the right direction, getting them to understand the NCOs position and reason behind the MOI, in spite of my 2 warnings, in the end i had to dissmiss them as they were disruptive to the detachment, it wasn't something i wanted to do and i have the patience of a saint, it was the only option.

    they looked upset and dissapointed but they knew the rules when they joined up and i couldn't have immature cadet with a 10 yo attitude and a short temper handling weapons.
    one of them had a sister in my unit, she had a much better attitude and she is 12, girls seemed more mature at that age than boys.

    if anything good were to come out of this , is that by being binned they will realise that there is a limit to what you can get away with and take this lesson with them.

    will be waiting for the parents to come down !:roll:

    HQ Land raise the age back up to 13 yo please.