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Karl Schauenberg - from Hitler Youth to the Grenadier Guards

#21
He's gen. I'm sure it was awarded for service against the Russians only. Balls of steel, that man. ;-)

Adolf-Hitler-and-Hitlerjugend-Wilhelm-Willi-Hubner.jpg
 
#22
But in the British Army permission from HMQ is required to wear foreign decorations in uniform and with the best will in the world I can't see a Nazi era EKII being granted permission to wear.
Obviously I agree with that, but even if HMQ/HMG were so minded, there would be the burden of proof.
In the circumstances that Hitler Youth were decorated with Iron Crosses, the chances of there being a confirmatory citation being granted, let alone that or other documentation surviving the war, would be minimal at the most.
Being in physical possession of the Cross would not in itself prove qualification to the standard required.
 
#23
Obviously I agree with that, but even if HMQ/HMG were so minded, there would be the burden of proof.
In the circumstances that Hitler Youth were decorated with Iron Crosses, the chances of there being a confirmatory citation being granted, let alone that or other documentation surviving the war, would be minimal at the most.
Being in physical possession of the Cross would not in itself prove qualification to the standard required.
Well with respect, the soldier in question would have the Verlieh notification and that would also be noted on records.
 
#26
#28
Well with respect, the soldier in question would have the Verlieh notification and that would also be noted on records.
I take your point although the chances of a POW retaining his soldbuch after processing and internment would have been very slim indeed.
But of course, had the action been recorded as I imagine was the case almost to the last few weeks of the war, then, given the amount of data the German State Archives have, the award would, with have been verifiable.
But I should also make clear that I'm not suggesting that he didn't receive the award, simply that he wouldn't have got permission to wear it on British uniform.
 
#30
I take your point although the chances of a POW retaining his soldbuch after processing and internment would have been very slim indeed.
But of course, had the action been recorded as I imagine was the case almost to the last few weeks of the war, then, given the amount of data the German State Archives have, the award would, with have been verifiable.
But I should also make clear that I'm not suggesting that he didn't receive the award, simply that he wouldn't have got permission to wear it on British uniform.
Interesting point. I still have dads paybook British army and the amount of information contained therein is a mine. I’ve broadly to managed to place his photographic collection with it’s help. However all those captured soldiers were entitled to war pensions from the West German Government at some stage, so presumably upon release and repatriation, they must have had them returned
 
#31
The award would have been entered into the recipients 'Soldbuch' eg





Further info here: www.soldbuch.de.vu
Well well, that title in the Soldbuch (top left) looks suspiciously as though the Wehrmacht wrote along a ruler as well.
 
#33
Well there is a coincidence. Having never heard of this chap before. Earlier this evening I was watching a programme about the SS on the Discovery or History Channel and Werner Volkner was explaining how he came to join the SS and his attitude to being in the SS and his role in the war.

I do not reside in the UK so not sure if it was also shown there.
 
#34
Another interesting soldier was Capt Sulzbach OBE Royal Pioneer Corps who in addition to winning the
Iron Cross 1st and 2nd Cl in the First World War, soldiered in the British Army during the 2nd WW.

Neither of these gentlemen word their German medals on their British uniforms although Volkner stated that an application to do so came to nothing.

Link;
Capt Sulzbach
 
#35
His army number quoted in the article 22386075 may be a typo, it's very unlikely that have been issued with that
number on enlistment in 1962.

Here is someone who was a true character, even down to the Hohenzollern moustache who I'm sure made the army richer by his presence and must have been the source of many true anecdotes as well as legends - I find it a bit sad that all he appears to be known now is as the British Soldier who wore an Iron Cross tucked out of sight on parade.
My guess would be that the 1962 date on the obit would be the typo. The number is about right for 1952.

Totally agree with your final paragraph.
 
#36
My guess would be that the 1962 date on the obit would be the typo. The number is about right for 1952.
Could be, but I came down on the side of the number perhaps being a typo for a couple of reasons;
1962 would have be during the tenure of Rodney Bashford as Director and also the service years given (1962 -1984 ) ties in with a 22 year engagement.
I can think of only three reasons for the discrepancy.
The date of joining being wrong ;
The number being wrong ; or
That he had previous service as a NS man or TA ;
Who knows?
It's not that important in the whole scheme of things but I would have thought that the Guards would have quickly picked up on such an error in the orbit.
 
#37
Another interesting soldier was Capt Sulzbach OBE Royal Pioneer Corps who in addition to winning the
Iron Cross 1st and 2nd Cl in the First World War, soldiered in the British Army during the 2nd WW.

Neither of these gentlemen word their German medals on their British uniforms although Volkner stated that an application to do so came to nothing.

Link;
Capt Sulzbach
His book "with the German Guns" has been reviewed by @foxtrot40
 
#38
We shouldn't forget; Surgeon General William George Nicholas Manley, VC, CB






Surgeon-General William Manley. Holder of the Victoria Cross and the Prussian Iron Cross 2nd Class of 1870. Manley was also awarded the Prussian Military Merit Medal and the Bavarian Order of Military Merit. In 1870, he commanded B division of the British Ambulance Corps, attached to the 22nd division of the Prussian army.

Just to add, Manley was awarded the 'Non-combat' version of the Iron Cross. The only difference between this and the 'Combat' version is the ribbon (Non-combat - white with two vertical black stripes. Combat - black with two vertical white stripes).
 
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#39
As a matter of interest , is the Iron Cross still a current award ?
And while we're at it , why was the Blue Max dropped ?
 

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