Just when you thought it was hard enough to see a GP....

My heart pumps purple píss. There are many people who can rightly claim to have very stressful jobs.

How does this improve the service from GPs? Or should everyone just adopt the attitude of awww poor lambs, don’t you worry we’ll just quietly die/suffer to avoid stressing you out.

How often do you have to triage? Or deny pain killers because of addiction danger? Or tell a mum there’s nothing than can be done for a kid with cancer?

Give your inflated sense of empathy a rest.
 
How often do you have to triage? Or deny pain killers because of addiction danger? Or tell a mum there’s nothing than can be done for a kid with cancer?

Give your inflated sense of empathy a rest.

How often has a doctor had to walk up to a bomb?

I had my job, they have theirs and many others have theirs that they crack on with.
 
Can one of the NHS supporters on this thread tell me if I've got this right or not. The failures within the NHS are less to do with procurement and waste, but simply that computer says 'no'!
 

rmn

LE
How often has a doctor had to walk up to a bomb?

I had my job, they have theirs and many others have theirs that they crack on with.
The figures actually apply to completed suicide - ie it ended in death rather than a trip to A & E. For medics, this is usually high as they have access to the means and knowledge to do a "proper job" so to speak.
 

kandak01

War Hero
My heart pumps purple píss. There are many people who can rightly claim to have very stressful jobs.

How does this improve the service from GPs? Or should everyone just adopt the attitude of awww poor lambs, don’t you worry we’ll just quietly die/suffer to avoid stressing you out.
Clearly, having doctors killing themselves doesn't improve access to the service.

The point (of this whole thread really) is that if T&C are inadequate to retain staff (not just doctors, and not just by early retirement, emigration, PT working, or suicide), then you, and other patients will personally suffer. And you shouldn't be surprised by this.

It's selfish and shortsighted to be indifferent to the various factors involved in delivering healthcare.

I'd argue it's also relevant to military recruitment and retention, police services, and other stuff that helps the country run. Demanding the same, or greater, level of service with decreasing resources is just a dead end.

If it helps, I think EOD must be incredibly stressful, and I'm not going to get into a pointless debate about relative stress levels in various jobs- there's no right answer
 
Last edited:
Does anyone know of any stats that compare medical staff suicide rates to other stressful professions?
 

kandak01

War Hero
Where do the stats for this come from? (the table below is 7-8 yrs out of date, but implies that male doctors had a proportionally lower rate of suicide and that female nurses were a high risk group)


The causes of any suicide are something that society should be working to mitigate, but should not the statistics (*) be pointing us to the people that most need the help?



(*) I'm going to guess that some people will throw in a cost benefit analysis here, eg 1 doctor = 3 porters in terms of economic benefit to society.
The stats come via health committee reports (I think I linked to one earlier)
Adjusting for education, wealth, social circumstances etc., doctors should have very low suicide rates, but they don't.

But, tbh, this thread is more about why can't people see a GP any more, and suicide is only a small part of the reason
 
The figures actually apply to completed suicide - ie it ended in death rather than a trip to A & E. For medics, this is usually high as they have access to the means and knowledge to do a "proper job" so to speak.

So? What‘s your point?
 
Clearly, having doctors killing themselves doesn't improve access to the service.

The point (of this whole thread really) is that if T&C are inadequate to retain staff (not just doctors, and not just by early retirement, emigration, PT working, or suicide), then you, and other patients will personally suffer. And you shouldn't be surprised by this.

It's selfish and shortsighted to be indifferent to the various factors involved in delivering healthcare.

I'd argue it's also relevant to military recruitment and retention, police services, and other stuff that helps the country run. Demanding the same, or greater, level of service with decreasing resources is just a dead end.

If it helps, I think EOD must be incredibly stressful, and I'm not going to get into a pointless debate about relative stress levels in various jobs- there's no right answer

Doctors or more specifically GPs? Because my most recent experience of requiring medical attention recognises great pressures heaped on A&E and hospitals because of failings by GPs.

They aren’t exactly helping themselves.
 

Blues&Twos

Clanker
Doctors or more specifically GPs? Because my most recent experience of requiring medical attention recognises great pressures heaped on A&E and hospitals because of failings by GPs.

They aren’t exactly helping themselves.
And if you ever saw behind the curtain you’d see the exact same pressure is dumped on general practice, and in much higher volumes, by the failures of hospitals (both public and private), social services, the ambulance service, the care system, the school system, occupational health, various charities, mental health services, and countless others that you’ve never even heard of. Need us to issue you the right workboots? Nah, we’ll need a letter from your doctor to prove you’ve got broad feet. Need a replacement cushion for your wheelchair? Who cares that we issued it, you need to pester your GP to place the request. Want a sick note following your knee replacement? Sure, your surgeon could do it in 30 seconds, but best push it on to your GP to do instead. A&E want a 24 hour ECG arranging for a chest pain patient? Yeah, could just speak to cardiology who are down the corridor, but instead let’s tell the patient they can get their GP to make the phone call instead. So that’s an appointment wasted just to be asked to do a needless admin task that was entirely in the purview of the doctor who wants it doing in the first place.

Then picture this same “just get the GP to do it” mentality pushed onto several hundred issues every week of the year, on top of the day to day work of actually dealing with patients.

We get it, you don’t like your GP. But you’re absolutely clueless as to why the problems you’re so vocal about exist.

Also, before you pipe up trying to compare it your EOD example, I’ve yet to meet anyone defusing 200-250 bombs a week, expected to rush through faster than is appropriate but still get everything perfect, who’s drowning in perfectly safe, low yield but demanding bombs which leaves them unable to attend to the complicated life-or-death bombs, who’s being asked to defuse his mates share of bombs on top, who might get permanently struck off from bomb defusal if he doesn’t do enough, makes an error or gets a dodgy enough complaint. And also is being asked to also staff the cookhouse without any real expertise in catering because the person who’s job it is has a 2 year waiting list to plate up a hotpot.
 
And if you ever saw behind the curtain you’d see the exact same pressure is dumped on general practice, and in much higher volumes, by the failures of hospitals (both public and private), social services, the ambulance service, the care system, the school system, occupational health, various charities, mental health services, and countless others that you’ve never even heard of. Need us to issue you the right workboots? Nah, we’ll need a letter from your doctor to prove you’ve got broad feet. Need a replacement cushion for your wheelchair? Who cares that we issued it, you need to pester your GP to place the request. Want a sick note following your knee replacement? Sure, your surgeon could do it in 30 seconds, but best push it on to your GP to do instead. A&E want a 24 hour ECG arranging for a chest pain patient? Yeah, could just speak to cardiology who are down the corridor, but instead let’s tell the patient they can get their GP to make the phone call instead. So that’s an appointment wasted just to be asked to do a needless admin task that was entirely in the purview of the doctor who wants it doing in the first place.

Then picture this same “just get the GP to do it” mentality pushed onto several hundred issues every week of the year, on top of the day to day work of actually dealing with patients.

We get it, you don’t like your GP. But you’re absolutely clueless as to why the problems you’re so vocal about exist.

Also, before you pipe up trying to compare it your EOD example, I’ve yet to meet anyone defusing 200-250 bombs a week, expected to rush through faster than is appropriate but still get everything perfect, who’s drowning in perfectly safe, low yield but demanding bombs which leaves them unable to attend to the complicated life-or-death bombs, who’s being asked to defuse his mates share of bombs on top, who might get permanently struck off from bomb defusal if he doesn’t do enough, makes an error or gets a dodgy enough complaint. And also is being asked to also staff the cookhouse without any real expertise in catering because the person who’s job it is has a 2 year waiting list to plate up a hotpot.

Much of that is shíte. Cushions for wheelchairs don’t cone from GPs.

ECG - not available at GP, hospital appt required.

MH from a GP, don’t make me laugh, they even refuse to accept their requirement for referral to TILS when asked (despite it being on the NHS & Gov.uk websites).

I’d love a knee, forget the sicknote you ignorant príck.

It’s funny that I’ve talked to quite a few doctors, each of us talking about our respective jobs and a few different doctors have said “yes, but I’ve never had the pressures you’ve had to face”. Blows your assertion out of the water.
 
From what I recall of the context of the TV show from years ago it was compared to Joe Blogs/the general public.

Therefore made up.
 
I'd suggest that few general practitioners will take on new patients whose interpreter is a 7 year old trying to explain granny's gynae problems.

Especially if said gp is female and doesn't take kindly to half the male clan barging in and glaring in their ever so brave manner at her.
 

GDog

War Hero
My heart pumps purple píss. There are many people who can rightly claim to have very stressful jobs.

How does this improve the service from GPs? Or should everyone just adopt the attitude of awww poor lambs, don’t you worry we’ll just quietly die/suffer to avoid stressing you out.
I was trying to make the point that doctors do top themselves more often than average. The post I replied to sought to cast doubt on that and I didn't think it was accurate or reasonable. I might be wrong, this is subject to the vagaries and bias of statistics etc.

My own position is based on hearsay (old TV documentary) and anecdotes (my childhood GP killed himself, news reporting etc). I've spent some time interacting with Drs in various roles over my life and I can empathise with the idea that it could get overwhelming in certain circumstances. I'm not claiming scientific rigour here, but I would be very surprised if the group had a lower rate of suicide than the population.

When it comes to improving service then there's a lot that can be done. But if you have an individual GP that is struggling to cope then adding extra pressure onto them won't usually help unless there's some aspect of personal laziness that needs to be disrupted.

There's a lot I hear about this business that sounds crap, like GPs on "part time" gigs still having to do 40+ hours p/w to get everything done. That's the kind of BS I would not tolerate and would demand more money for. But if HMRC nicks 50% of it what's the point of doing the overtime? Add on the pension tax and the incentive to say "**** it" is even greater.

Fundamentally there's a labour shortage, which is why getting a GP is a ballache. It's hardly surprising given the tax disincentives we've created for them to do any overtime.
 

GDog

War Hero
Therefore made up.
Not "made up", but a wooly memory of a TV show I saw a long time ago, filming what I saw as a credible lecture (of which my memory is hazy).

I'm not trying to claim this is some rock solid gold standard evidence, more a thing I recall that seemed credible at the time and has informed my opinion since.
 

TractorStats

War Hero
Again that is mainly related to the fact that farmers have the means (i.e. shotguns) to make a successful attempt rather than frequency. Doctors fall into that category too with access to lethal medicines.

I did look at the ONS stats and it said doctors have a lower level of suicide than farmers and in the general population which surprised me. Healthcare workers in general are quite high.
 

Latest Threads

Top