Just what Labour thinks of the Army

#2
if travel was based on service to country and value all service personnel together with vetrans would have unlimited first class travel and MP's and Civl Servants would be pulling a donkey cart.
 
#3
What's wrong with standard class travel on trains, shows ho much some people are out of touch, the article mentions second class.

It hasn't been that for decades.

There is nothing wrong with having a blanket travel policy for all MoD staff, can't see what the fuss is about myself

EXCEPT

Other public sector employees, for example MP's, should be exactly the same. If there is a bus outing due it is because of the inequalities between MP's and other public servants
 

BuggerAll

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#4
I think this is wrong, but it is an indication of just how badly Labour have bankrupted the country and how badly underfunded the MoD is.

Its always difficult to argue in favour of anything that sounds like 'privilege' but don't forget that one day Labour will come for something you hold dear.
 
#5
"There is nothing wrong with having a blanket travel policy for all MoD staff, can't see what the fuss is about myself"

Er there is, I know I am extreme Right wing but Labour will do ANYTHING to do down the old accepted ORDER and one mor ego at dragging down the Military High Command is a ' Biggy' intheir book .
I don't think there are 6XX Senoir Officers but if there is why do MPs retain their First Class travel.
john
 

OldSnowy

LE
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#6
meridian said:
What's wrong with standard class travel on trains, shows ho much some people are out of touch, the article mentions second class.

It hasn't been that for decades.

There is nothing wrong with having a blanket travel policy for all MoD staff, can't see what the fuss is about myself

EXCEPT

Other public sector employees, for example MP's, should be exactly the same. If there is a bus outing due it is because of the inequalities between MP's and other public servants
We've been through this before, many times. Some years ago, as part of an annual pay deal, some Civil Servants had no pay increase - instead, some of their T&Cs were improved. One part of this was the allowance, in certain circumstances, to first class travel when going to meetings.

Get rid of it, fine, but give the pay increase back?


I am realistic enough to know that this will never happen, but it's still worth pointing this out before this develops into yet another "bloody CS" thread. We've had enough of them. Agreed, get rid of MP's perks at the same time as well then - I remember when (again, not that long ago) when their pay and conditions were based on those of a middle-ranking Civil Servant. They now earn over twice as much as that grade, and as for their perks............... Mind you, they vote their own pay rises in, and as this illustrates, they simply cannot be trusted as a group, let alone as individuals.
 
#7
BuggerAll said:
I think this is wrong, but it is an indication of just how badly Labour have bankrupted the country and how badly underfunded the MoD is./quote]

The country is in financial trouble, no two ways about it. However, this is only an indication of how skewed Gordon Brown's priorities are. Every newspaper, internet forum or magazine has, at some point, drawn attention to the vast amount of Quangos there are in positions of influence. Anything Gordon cuts will be met with scorn unless he addresses this one first.
 
#8
meridian said:
What's wrong with standard class travel on trains, shows ho much some people are out of touch, the article mentions second class.

It hasn't been that for decades.

There is nothing wrong with having a blanket travel policy for all MoD staff, can't see what the fuss is about myself

EXCEPT

Other public sector employees, for example MP's, should be exactly the same. If there is a bus outing due it is because of the inequalities between MP's and other public servants
Sorry to disagree I used to travel daily from Northampton to London so called standard class would have been put to shame by the old 3rd Class or even a model cattle truck, it was near impossible to get a seat in Standard. Because of an injury I got whilst serving I can't stand for long periods I was one of those out of touch people that travelled 1st Class.
On many of the long distance lines it is impossible to get a meal on a train unless you do travel 1st and also impossible to work as on many trains as there are no tables or power points for laptops in standard.
 
#9
Want a seat or a table, book it online. 5 seconds
Want to work on a laptop, charge the battery
Want a meal, get something from the shop in the station

Heard all these excuses before, I have used trains all over the country, both first and standard. Of course First is better, more convenient etc but the countries finances are in the toilet so the public sector should at least share the burden of getting them out. The private sector has initiated all sorts of cost saving measures, job shares, redundancies, short working, travel bans etc etc.

The public sector needs to get a fcuking grip and stop sucking the country dry if that means an air vice marshal goes standard class then so be it
 
#11
meridian said:
The public sector needs to get a fcuking grip and stop sucking the country dry if that means an air vice marshal goes standard class then so be it
As was pointed out on the other thread about this, how many officers with the rank Lt Col and above actually travel by train? Its tends only to be the very young officers (all officers are entitled to 1st class travel for official reasons) who travel by train, because they don't have their own set of wheels.
Its a non story.
 
#12
I guess this was alright when the railways were public owned, but now it's just a bit of a throwback, i've never travelled first class, no real point in it.

I do think that the railways booking system is a total rip off though, there are no deals that i can see via the way the MoD book tickets, infact the way we book tickets means we rarely get deals, i wonder why when selling off the railways somebody didn't think to get deals in place for this sort of thing, maybe it's worth taking the subsidies off the rail companies and using it for the government to book travel, maybe that way the companies will have to work for their profit instead of subsidies being topped up.
 
#13
It is more a matter of how much will be saved by this measure. I would expect MPs to lead from the front. Particularly because the reasons that they cite for needing first class echo those of the senior officers. One cannot make an exception for one without the other. CS should be left alone, OS makes a fair point that their perk is in lieu of a pay rise so is based on a different rationale.
If a Government fails to show respect for it's senior subordinates then who will?
 
#14
meridian said:
Want a seat or a table, book it online. 5 seconds
Want to work on a laptop, charge the battery
Want a meal, get something from the shop in the station

Heard all these excuses before, I have used trains all over the country, both first and standard. Of course First is better, more convenient etc but the countries finances are in the toilet so the public sector should at least share the burden of getting them out. The private sector has initiated all sorts of cost saving measures, job shares, redundancies, short working, travel bans etc etc.

The public sector needs to get a grip and stop sucking the country dry if that means an air vice marshal goes standard class then so be it
Don't disagree that the public sector needs to get a grip but with regard to

Want a seat or a table, book it online. 5 seconds - Many lines no longer have bookable seats especially those going into London
Want to work on a laptop, charge the battery - In many cases the journeys are longer than the life of a battery which is shorten by things like mobile data cards etc.
Want a meal, get something from the shop in the station - Soory but the food from station shops is vastly over priced plastic rubbish I would rather eat the wrapping it comes in.
 
#15
Speaking as a CS, the case for 1st class travel is indefensible in my book. I can see how it came about, but in this day and age, the reason for a lowly C2 CS to travel 1st class is nonsensical. I'm all for scrapping the entitlement, maybe having a one off consolidation payment to salaries to compensate, and then never having this ridiculous allowance again.
 
#16
Markintime said:
It is more a matter of how much will be saved by this measure. I would expect MPs to lead from the front. Particularly because the reasons that they cite for needing first class echo those of the senior officers. One cannot make an exception for one without the other. CS should be left alone, OS makes a fair point that their perk is in lieu of a pay rise so is based on a different rationale.
If a Government fails to show respect for it's senior subordinates then who will?
Please wake up "MiT" , since when have ANY recent politicians ever "led from the front" in any sensible type of economic restraint or moral stance, FFS these are the greedy bastards that have just voted themselves a pay rise whilst trying to preach no pay rises to public servants and others! :x :x
 
#17
skintboymike said:
BuggerAll said:
I think this is wrong, but it is an indication of just how badly Labour have bankrupted the country and how badly underfunded the MoD is./quote]

The country is in financial trouble, no two ways about it. However, this is only an indication of how skewed Gordon Brown's priorities are. Every newspaper, internet forum or magazine has, at some point, drawn attention to the vast amount of Quangos there are in positions of influence. Anything Gordon cuts will be met with scorn unless he addresses this one first.
Well the very last people to lose their perks/expenses will be our beloved MP's.
 
#18
Bear in mind the government has just spent the years since 1997 politicising the CS and ensuring its placemen have infested the entire organisation for the inevitable day when they are ejected from power.

There should be a review of the non jobs created under labour, those in them should be identified and then sacked without redundancy or pension rights. Trevor Philips being the first of many.

Actually I would go further and seize "their" assets and return the proceeds to the taxpayer.

First class travel for CS is just part of the rewards for doing the bidding of this government and should be stopped. The sponging b*stards get enough rewards without further burdening the genuine employee.
 
#19
You think Mr Brown's Labour government dislikes the Army?
They must really, really dislike the Royal Navy then. The RN seems to be suffering far greater asset stripping than the Army over the last 12 or 13 years.
 
#20
Can anyone on this site, familiar with the public face of 'those politically in command of us, imagine:

1. The orange 'perma-tanned' 'terrorist' (tin-tacks on the pitch 1970) and luckily acquitted 'criminal' (Barclay's Putney 1975), Hain travelling from Paddington to Neath 2nd Class? By all accounts he seldom visits the dump.

2. Patricia Hewitt (Labour's answer to Virginia Bottomley) travelling by train - let alone 2nd Class. This sneering Australian probably unaware that there is a 'Second Class' - other than the brain-dead morons who vote for her of course.

I am amazed at her directorships - not bad for a 'commie' - or for a serious champagne socialist. I have sold any stocks that I had with this sneering cow 'on board', but honestly, how can someone be a 'socialist' and a 'capitalist' at the same time?

Oh! I am so silly - no problem at all for New Labour 'socialists'.
 

Similar threads

Latest Threads