Juniors/SCBC

#1
I've just been told a bid has been put in for me to do STAB Juniors in May, so, any pointers? I asked around and was generally told "you'll be fine", which was lovely and sweet, but **** all help. :roll:
 
#2
Speak to your SPSI.

msr
 

RP578

LE
Book Reviewer
#3
303SMLE said:
I've just been told a bid has been put in for me to do STAB Juniors in May, so, any pointers? I asked around and was generally told "you'll be fine", which was lovely and sweet, but * all help. :roll:
Yeah, I got the same helpful advice. The key to doing well on SCTC is a) being as fit as you possible can be and b) being shit hot with your orders extractions.

It can be an immensely physical course, so use the time from now till then to train up (especially tabbing up hills). The joining instructions do actually included a month long training schedule which is quite good!

To give you an example, the first Tuesday we did a CFT (usual battle order, helmets on etc.) and believe me it's a bit f***ing tasty (all the c*nts on here who bang on about a CFT being 'just a walk in the park' have never tabbed one in Brecon. Trust me that's not a phrase you'll ever use to describe a CFT again!) After that there was a lesson on section attacks. Each of you had to have a turn at being IC so that meant you did 8 section attacks (and by section attack, I mean the full deal, not some abbreviated version over terrain the length of a footie pitch). And of course this being Brecon, those 8 section attacks are all up a steep incline. That evening there was a lecture in the classroom (think it was on operating Bowman the kit.

Later that night we up for a couple hours were fabloning all manner of bollox. If you know someone who's recently come off the course, see if you can't borrow their stuff and the paperwork you get, you can fablon later at your own leisure. It'll save you hours. Another top tip is to take a pair of socks and underwear for each day. Just buy a shed load and throw them all in a plastic bag at the end of the day to save on laundering time.

It can be physically and mentally draining at times. You'll be surprised how many blokes think about jacking it, especially during the Field Ex. There's a 36 hour period during which you've just got to resign yourself to the fact that you're not going to sleep. Mentally accept that.

DON'T QUIT whatever you do!! Just hang in there and keep going. Don't worry about not coming first. Even if you don't keep up with the rest, well then you don't keep up with the rest. But whatever you do, don't stop and quit.

Every man and his mongrel that's in a Rifle Company has to do this course to get beyond LCpl, which means that there will be some dingbats on the course, which in turn means there will be someone who's worse than you are! It is hard, but by no means is it like door-knocking for the Jehovahs Witnesses in Falujah, like some people would have you believe. It's quite educational (or at least it was for me, but I don't think it's the kind of course that anyone enjoys, if you know what I mean.

msr said:
Speak to your SPSI.

msr
Mate, I know you get some sort mental erection out of quoting that line, but you have no idea how erroneous that is in this instance. Your PSI will have absolutely no more inside information about PTC (TA) than you do after having read the joining instructions, unless he's been DS on it in a previous incarnation. When I asked mine what I should expect, he was blunt and honest.
"How the f*ck should I know? Our course (regular version which incorporates SAA) was spread out over several months and that was ten years ago! You're best off asking someone who's recently done it."

303SMLE, when in May does your course start?
 
#4
It's not a mental erection - clearly my SPSI is way better than yours... as he knows the courses the blokes need, what those courses involve and what the blokes need to do in order to make the most of them.

msr
 
#5
You can also download the JIs in the IBS section on armynet.

(I know you'll get them eventually - but you might as well get eyes on as early as possible, and as stated before you do get given a month long phys training schedule in it)
 
#6
Hi 303smle, i have to agree with RP578, the course is very very demanding in both mental and physical terms. I've just done the recent September course and get say that RP578's advice is spot on.

We did Bowman training on the 1st couple of nights, meaning a late finish and then having to fablon all the cards and maps. Top Tip, Get yourself a cheap laminating machine and lots of laminating pouches (WH smith do a good deal) to do your cards. Your maps can be done before you get down there, just find out which ones (they use 2 in Brecon). Most Lcpls who have done the course like me, want to keep the maps for when we do seniors!!

We did the CFT on a Weds if a remember correctly, the first 6 miler for a TA course. It was emotional to say the least. 9 lads from my battalion were on the course, 4 of us finished the CFT....
Once you have done the CFT, had a stretch and rehydrate, the Lcpl's are given a crap load of ammo (i mean a crap load) and sent away with the DS and spend the rest of the day doing section attacks Brecon style (i.e textbook style) with about 65-70 pounds of kit on . If your the section commander or 2ic and get to carry the bowman as well..unlucky. This is the kit you carry for the rest of the week whilst learning the art of section attacks.
Fitness is an absolute must. I would start now...i personally had left is with 6 weeks to go before starting the fitness. I over did it and got an injury 2 weeks before the course. Luckily, i recovered with a couple of days to go.

They issue you with a massive thick booklet on the 1st day of the course, speak to someone who's been on recently to photocopy is for you. One of our gripes was that we would have benefited more if we received the booklets a couple of months before the course - Brecon said they would look into it (but i wouldnt hold my breath)

And the point about theres alway someone worse than you.. well, on my course, there were a number a RAF Reg Aux on the course who, to say the least, emitted an air of incompetence!! An RAF (potential) sgt couldnt keep up with a Platton tab - it was on the way to an ambush. All the DS were pi55ing themselves, laughing at him as another student on the course had to carry his kit.
So yeah, stay the gray man and dont quit, no matter what!! 2 Lcpl's in my section quit in the 1st week, meaning more command appointments, more stags etc for the rest of us.

I went on the course with the mentality that the course was gonna be a beast and took the Brecon myth to heart. I enjoyed the course and found it wasnt as hard as i thought it was. On the other hand, a lad in my room thought the course would be a peace of pi55 and he ended up having a torrid time.

Hope this advice helps mate and good luck!!
 
#7
chungmeister said:
We did Bowman training on the 1st couple of nights, meaning a late finish and then having to fablon all the cards and maps. Top Tip, Get yourself a cheap laminating machine and lots of laminating pouches (WH smith do a good deal) to do your cards. Your maps can be done before you get down there, just find out which ones (they use 2 in Brecon). Most Lcpls who have done the course like me, want to keep the maps for when we do seniors!!
In the spirit of arrse: Can you scan the cards and provide the map reference numbers?

Then bung it all on a wiki page.

msr
 

RP578

LE
Book Reviewer
#8
msr said:
In the spirit of arrse: Can you scan the cards and provide the map reference numbers?

Then bung it all on a wiki page.

msr
No. Ask your PSI! :D

Purple_Emperor said:
You can also download the JIs in the IBS section on armynet.
That's actually the Regular version (unless the TA one's been added in the past couple of months). Nonetheless, the JI's you get are pretty comprehensive about the daily schedule, fitness requirement etc. N.B. There's a WHT certificate that requires signing off for L85, LSW, GPMG & LMG. We only noticed this late in the day and had to make a last minute arrangement with one of our regular battalions to get our hands on a Minimi and General as we don't hold either at our Coy.

chungmeister, yeah we had one RAF officer on ours (for the PCTC cadre). He was a useless dick as well.

2 Lcpl's in my section quit in the 1st week, meaning more command appointments, more stags etc for the rest of us.
That does happen and it is an absolute bastard, but sweet FA you can do about it. Also people have a habit of getting injured left, right and centre. I did my ankle in right ant the end, but managed to limp in to the finish. If you're going there with an injury already it WILL get worse. Seriously think about it.

We did the CFT on a Weds if a remember correctly, the first 6 miler for a TA course. It was emotional to say the least. 9 lads from my battalion were on the course, 4 of us finished the CFT....
Out of interest chungmeister, what happened to your CFT failures? Were all of yours bunged off the course?
 
#9
RP578 said:
msr said:
In the spirit of arrse: Can you scan the cards and provide the map reference numbers?

Then bung it all on a wiki page.

msr
No. Ask your PSI! :D
I would do, but I am not an Infanteer ;)

msr
 
#10
Whats the rules regarding opsec and the said cards?

On Brecon nowadays, if you fail your CFT, you can still pass the course. On your course report, it will state that you need to work on fitness etc and pass a CFT before being recommended for promotion. Out of the 5 who failed from my Battalion, 3 have been promoted (im still waiting for mine), i guess my deep throat technique isnt upto scratch.
I made sure i passed just to beat the myth and defeat the mental stumbling block that was in my mind.

An RAF Reg officer on our course gave a set of platoon orders for an ambush.
You could just see the DS at the back cringing with horror.
The whole ambush was a nightmare and the was when the platoon was split in two and seperated as we made our way to the ambush site as the Fat useless RAF Reg Aux sgt couldnt keep up and lagged behind. It was a patrol FFS, not a speed march!!

On my course, we didnt use the LMG or UGL for some reason, just the GPMG and that wasnt until the FTX.
 
#11
chungmeister said:
Whats the rules regarding opsec and the said cards?
Are they marked restricted?

msr
 
#12
re: JIs.

If its the all in one course PCBC, ceniors and juniors, they are up on the web.

I am very tempted i have to admit! Got a strange liking for brecon after my last visit up there!
 

RP578

LE
Book Reviewer
#13
chungmeister said:
On Brecon nowadays, if you fail your CFT, you can still pass the course. On your course report, it will state that you need to work on fitness etc and pass a CFT before being recommended for promotion.
Yeah, that's what happened on ours too, but most of the CFT failures didn't complete the course anyway.

chungmeister said:
Out of the 5 who failed from my Battalion, 3 have been promoted (im still waiting for mine), i guess my deep throat technique isnt upto scratch.
Practice on a banana to help overcome the gag reflex .... er, so my missus tells me!

chungmeister said:
I made sure i passed just to beat the myth and defeat the mental stumbling block that was in my mind.
T'was exactly the same with me. A real psychological battle. That and I didn't wanted to be tainted with stigma of being marked out as a failure.

chungmeister said:
An RAF Reg officer on our course gave a set of platoon orders for an ambush.
You could just see the DS at the back cringing with horror.
The whole ambush was a nightmare and the was when the platoon was split in two and seperated as we made our way to the ambush site as the Fat useless RAF Reg Aux sgt couldnt keep up and lagged behind. It was a patrol FFS, not a speed march!!
303SMLE - Just to explain about being with officers and seniors. The Infantry Battle School runs a course called Platoon Tactics Course (PTC) which is broken down into 3 cadres; Platoon Commanders' Tactics Course, Platoon Commanders Sergeants' Course ("Seniors") & Section Commanders Tactics Course ("Juniors"). Whilst the cadres go their separate ways for lessons and practice periods, they merge as one unit for field exercises. So when it's not your turn to be PC/Pln Sgt/Section IC, you'll play a bod. This of course leads to the inevitable situation of having a Lt or Sgt as your rifleman/gunner/signaller/runner/2IC when it's your turn to play Section Cmdr. Most are OK and play the game, but you'll always get a couple who get sniffy demand correct titles etc.

msr said:
chungmeister wrote:
Whats the rules regarding opsec and the said cards?

Are they marked restricted?

msr
I think they are mate. I've lent mine to a lad from my Platoon who's off on his this month so don't have them in front of me
 
#14
Cheers for the responses guys. :D I think I have a couple of things in my favour; as I'm in the Royal Taffshires anyway I'm pretty familiar with SENTA as its our usual playground, and I've got all the maps etc already. :wink: I'll look into all the cards etc with my PSI and seniors,and dig out my laminating machine from potentials.

As to Officers and Seniors on the same course, they've put a bid in for my boss to do his PCBC at the same time, perhaps he'll be in my section.....not that I'll milk it of course. :twisted:
 
#15
Purple_Emperor said:
re: JIs.

If its the all in one course PCBC, ceniors and juniors, they are up on the web.

I am very tempted i have to admit! Got a strange liking for brecon after my last visit up there!
Am I looking in the wrong place, or are they a bit of date (i.e. course dates for '04)?

Edit: Found it!
 
#17
If you mean PTC 0702 starting 9th Feb then apparently they have changed all JI'S to not include report times....

Check PM
Tel
 
#18
303smile, I was on PJNOC with you and you should do alright, providing you haven't had a full frontal labotomy and not left the sofa for the last few years.
I'm going in September with some guys doing seniors and I'm really bricking it.

If your performance at Catterick was anything to go by you'll be fine. Just do what I intend to do and get loads of paper-work before you go.
 
#19
Just to re-iterate what others have said.

Don't get bogged down in the details of what to learn(you will be surprised how much you will know); as long as you have a reasonable working knowledge of orders and battle procedure you will be ok. It goes without saying that if you have a decent standard of fitness you will find the course much more enjoyable.

I would say as did CM that the most important requirement is going down there with the right attitude, keep going and keep smiling. The only thing I would say is to make sure you have the correct kit and that it is squared away when you get there as this will save you much time and worry of an evening.

Enjoy and keep smiling it's excellent training.

One last thing..
With respect to cards, they are subject to change regularly. Their use is very much dependent on what your DS believes to be important. So apart from a decent orbat/cas/ammo card (laminated) I would wait till you get there.
P.S. Take a laminater and loads of sheets, and not only will you save yourself time you will also have many new friends. 8)
 
#20
Found this from my PSBC from Sept 04. This was a PXR the Trg Maj at the time asked me to write, the contents should still be valid, sorry if it's a bit long, but hope it helps. I don't know if it's the morn but my Bn ran pre brecon trg weekends, which were made compulsory for all career courses (PJNCO, juniors, seniors and Officers following my comments, and increased to two weeknds!)

PXR POINTS FROM PLATOON TACTICS COURSE (PLATOON SERGEANTS BATTLE COURSE) 21ST AUGUST – 04TH SEPTEMBER 2004

1. Pre-course study This is essential at all levels. The instructors at IBS have a very limited time to get across a vast amount of knowledge. Many students turned up not even knowing what the Section Battle Drills were, there is no time to revise subjects, which as Section Commanders, students should already be conversant with.
Annex A details topics, which Section Commanders attending the PSBC should already be fluent in, as well as other subjects it would be useful to know (might just give the student that ‘edge’ over others!).

2. Pre-Brecon Course This is a very useful weekend, so much so that it is suggested that one weekend is not enough. Having now attended SCBC and PSBC and the Battalion run Pre-Courses for both, there are some subjects that could be covered that weren’t and some subjects that would benefit from more detail.

a. The Seven Questions Estimate

b. The Service Support Paragraph

c. Pl Sgt in the Advance and Attack

d. Pre-deployment checks

e. Principles of Administration


3. Transport If there are large numbers attending the course, it makes sense to co-ordinate one or two vehicles. We had a minibus and driver, this came from Dorchester with three pax, it stopped at Wyvern Barracks, and picked up four others (including one from Cornwall). It should be noted that we could not have got anyone else in the vehicle, and kit was tightly packed. For the return, there were separate vehicles to go to Dorchester and Wyvern. One car for four was entirely unsuitable, there was absolutely no-way we could have all got in there, it was fortunate, therefore, that one of the guys had gone home the previous weekend and picked up his car. As a guide, each individual will have belt order, a full bergan, a daysac, and a large civvi grip, those attending PSBC and PCBC will have a suit carrier, in addition to this many will have extras (laptop, Laminating machine etc).

4. Fitness and Physical Robustness It is vital that students turn up for this course as fit as possible. If you are not at the front of the squad, or carrying your equal share, not only do you stand out to the DS, it also means you can’t do your job, ‘lead from the front’, is the watchword. This was most notable in some of the young officers attending the course. Frequently Sergeants in appointment could be heard encouraging ‘Sir’ along.
The CFT completed on the pre-Course should be reviewed with this in mind, trundling along with the recruits on Woodbury is an insufficient test of fitness for this course. Many found the CFT on the Course to be emotional. Starting at Cilieni Village, there was a water stop at X Range Car Park, the route then turned South over the bridge and up hill for a little over a mile, eventually finishing at Black Hut. There was a second water stop at the top of the hill.
Either due to a lack of Physical Robustness or a poor mental attitude, some 70 - 80% of the course found the hill particularly demanding, and caused others to work extra hard to stay with the main body. If they had arrived on the course better prepared, this would not have been as much of an issue as it was.

5. Mental Attitude By the end of the course, some 25 students had been RTU’d, largely through their own choice. Although they say the Brecon Myth is no more, students should be aware that this is a testing and intense course. There is a vast amount of information to impart in only two weeks. This is not a nine to five course, some evening’s lectures did not finish until gone 1900hrs and there is still a lot of work to do in the evenings, students should arrive with this in mind. If students do not have a positive mind-set, they will not perform as well as they might.

6. The ‘Seven Questions’ Estimate The young officers from this unit benefit from various Tewts run by the Battalion, with regards to the 7 questions. The students attending PSBC don’t necessary benefit from this, and therefore it was an alien subject. Many students didn’t have the latest TAM insert relating to the 7 Questions, or knew it existed.

7. TAM inserts, cards and maps All of these are issued in the squad rooms on the first night at Brecon. However to save hours of fabloning and carving up the floors of the accommodation, Students should turn up to IBS with all these completed, all necessary paperwork is issued on the pre-course (this will also save a lot of time on those precious evenings in camp). It would be useful if the Battalion had some means of fabloning maps (both sides!) prior to attendance, as this is a big problem (the SPAR on camp stocks only very small rolls of fablon).

8. Patrol Report It should be noted that the format for the Patrol Report has changed, and IBS has adopted this.

9. Equipment Only issued kit is used on this course. In terms of webbing this means belt order, however, the use of chest rigs is allowed during the FIBUA phase. Jet packs are the only form of daysac allowed in the field. All equipment should be checked for serviceability at least a month prior to attendance to allow for any necessary exchanges.
Strictly speaking, only issued boots should be used unless a medical chit is presented saying otherwise. It was made clear, however, that nothing would be said if you wore your own boots, as long as they were serviceable, and weren’t going to impede the individuals soldiering capability (the CQMS made it clear that he would not re-supply a pair of LOWA’s in the field, unless you gave him the £130 first!).

XX XXXXX
Cpl
14 Pl Sgt

Annex A
OCT 04

PRE COURSE STUDY SUBJECTS (PSBC)

Students should remind and revise the following

Judging Distances
Fire Control Orders
Target Indication
Fire and Manoeuvre
Section Battle Drills
Platoon Battle Drills
Infantry Mission
Aim and Principles of Battle Procedure
Composition of Warning Order
Fire Mission
Situation Report
Contact Report

Students should familiarise themselves with the following

Principles of Administration
Ranges and Frequency Ranges of Clansman Radios
Effective Ranges of Weapons, both Infantry and Supporting Arms
Illumination and Smoke Characteristics
Familiarise self with Pre-Deployment checks and the Service Support Paragraph

Core topics covered on PTC

Advance and Attack
Patrols
FIBUA
Defence
Ambush
Withdrawal
 
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