JULIE BIRCHILL'S BOOK ON "CANCEL CULTURE" IS CANCELLED BY PUBLISHER...

[Emcon Ecomcon]

Here is a list of every major history of the First Crusade, literally every single one of them points to the central role of the Church, let me know which one's you have read or which one's dispute the role of the Chruch. I have read Jhon, Hotaling and Riley-Smith. Happy to take any questions you may have. I'll wait....

• Asbridge, Thomas (2004). The First Crusade: A New History. Oxford. ISBN 0-19-517823-8.
• Asbridge, Thomas (2012). The Crusades: The War for the Holy Land. Simon & Schuster. ISBN 978-1-84983-688-3.
• Curta, Florin (2019). Eastern Europe in the Middle Ages, 500–1300 (two volumes). Brill's Companions to European history No. 19. Leiden: Brill. ISBN 978-90-04-34257-6.
• France, Jhon (1994), Victory in the East: A Military History of the First Crusade, Cambridge University Press, ISBN 9780521589871
• Frankopan, Peter (2012). The First Crusade: The Call from the East. Harvard University Press. ISBN 978-0-674-05994-8.
• Gil, Moshe (1997) [1983]. A History of Palestine, 634–1099. Translated by Ethel Broido. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. ISBN 0-521-59984-9.
• Harris, Jonathan (2014). Byzantium and the Crusades (2nd ed.). Bloomsbury. ISBN 978-1-78093-767-0.
• Hillenbrand, Carole (1999). The Crusades: Islamic Perspectives. Routledge. ISBN 0-415-92914-8.
• Hindley, Geoffrey (2004). A Brief History of the Crusades: Islam and Christianity in the Struggle for World Supremacy. London: Constable & Robinson. pp. 300. ISBN 978-1-84119-766-1.
• Holt, Peter M. (1989). The Age of the Crusades: The Near East from the Eleventh Century to 1517. Longman. ISBN 0-582-49302-1.
• Holt, Peter Malcolm (2004). The Crusader States and Their Neighbours, 1098-1291. Pearson Longman. ISBN 978-0-582-36931-3.
• Hotaling, Edward (2003). Islam Without Illusions: Its Past, Its Present, and Its Challenge for the Future. Syracuse University Press. ISBN 978-0-8156-0766-3.
• Jotischky, Andrew (2004). Crusading and the Crusader States. Taylor & Francis. ISBN 978-0-582-41851-6.
• Konstam, Angus (2004). Historical Atlas of the Crusades. Mercury Books. ISBN 1-904668-00-3.
• Kontler, László (1999). Millennium in Central Europe: A History of Hungary. Budapest: Atlantisz. ISBN 978-963-9165-37-3.
• Lock, Peter (2006). Routledge Companion to the Crusades. New York: Routledge. ISBN 0-415-39312-4.
• Madden, Thomas (2005). New Concise History of the Crusades. Rowman & Littlefield. ISBN 0-7425-3822-2.
• Montefiore, Simon Sebag (2012). Jerusalem: The Biography. Vintage Books; Reprint Edition (September 18, 2012). ISBN 978-0307280503.
• Neveux, Francois (200. The Normans. Howard Curtis. Robinson. ISBN 978-1-84529-523-3.
• Nicolle, David (2003). The First Crusade, 1096–99: Conquest of the Holy Land. Osprey Publishing. ISBN 1-84176-515-5.
• Riley-Smith, Jonathan (1991). The First Crusade and the Idea of Crusading. University of Pennsylvania. ISBN 0-8122-1363-7.
• Riley-Smith, Jonathan (2005). The Crusades: A History (2nd ed.). Yale University Press. ISBN 0-8264-7270-2.
• Riley-Smith, Jonathan (199. The First Crusaders, 1095–1131. Cambridge. ISBN 0-521-64603-0.
• Runciman, S. (1980) [1951]. The First Crusade (abr. vers. of A History of the Crusades ed.). Cambridge University Press. ISBN 0-521-23255-4.
• Tyerman, Christopher (2006). God's War: A New History of the Crusades. Cambridge: Belknap Press of Harvard University Press. ISBN 0-674-02387-0.
• Tyerman, Christopher (2011). The Debate on the Crusades, 1099–2010. Manchester University Press. ISBN 978-0-7190-7320-5.
• Tyerman, Christopher (2019). The World of the Crusades. Yale University Press. ISBN 978-0-300-21739-1.
• Vryonis, Speros (1971). Decline of Medieval Hellenism in Asia Minor and the Process of Islamization in the Eleventh through Fifteenth Centuries. University of California Press. ISBN 0-520-01597-5.

Absolution of sins is a powerful motivator for many, as is the chance of loot for the italian normans.. The bottom line is the church was fixed on one goal and it wasn't to kill muslims, but heal the schism and unify the faith under the Roman, rather than Orthodox Banner.... The many Jihads prior to the crusades you seem to want to ignore, but the evidence is clear, that europe learned lessons from the arabs and imitation was clear both in the eastward expansion and counter drives into Spain.

P.S.
The nobles financed themselves, though the church provided monies as loans against land. The Greeks probably provided much of the funding for the actually armed expedition, until after Antioch fell and the crusaders failed to return it.

 

[MissingOTC]

Absolution of sins is a powerful motivator for many, as is the chance of loot for the italian normans.. The bottom line is the church was fixed on one goal and it wasn't to kill muslims, but heal the schism and unify the faith under the Roman, rather than Orthodox Banner.... The many Jihads prior to the crusades you seem to want to ignore, but the evidence is clear, that europe learned lessons from the arabs and imitation was clear both in the eastward expansion and counter drives into Spain.

P.S.
The nobles financed themselves, though the church provided monies as loans against land. The Greeks probably provided much of the funding, until after Antioch fell and the crusaders fail to return it.

Some of what you say is accurate, I am not disputing it, the topic of dispute is who initiated and directed the First Crusade initially, as I have proven, it was Pope Urban II. The fact such an established well known matter of historical record is even being debated on here is quite shocking, but does show to some extent the lengths some posters will go to in an attempt to whitewash the role of Christianity vis a vis Islam historically. All in all, quite a bit of pent up hate on here....

 

[Emcon Ecomcon]

Some of what you say is accurate, I am not disputing it, the topic of dispute is who initiated and directed the First Crusade initially, as I have proven, it was Pope Urban II. The fact such an established well known matter of historical record is even being debated on here is quite shocking, but does show to some extent the lengths some posters will go to in an attempt to whitewash the role of Christianity vis a vis Islam historically. All in all, quite a bit of pent up hate on here....

I don't usually source Wikipedia, but its quick and dirty:-
The earliest initiative for the First Crusade began in 1095 when the Byzantine Emperor, Alexios I Komnenos, requested military support from the Council of Piacenza in the Byzantine Empire's conflict with the Seljuk-led Turks.

The Emperor wanted a professional mercenary army and that was what the Church wanted. But, the crusade caught the public imagination and as I've constantly tried to hammer into your skull, is the west had been under attack itself only a century or more before and it was inevitable.......

 

[FORMER_FYRDMAN]

Some of what you say is accurate, I am not disputing it, the topic of dispute is who initiated and directed the First Crusade initially, as I have proven, it was Pope Urban II. The fact such an established well known matter of historical record is even being debated on here is quite shocking, but does show to some extent the lengths some posters will go to in an attempt to whitewash the role of Christianity vis a vis Islam historically. All in all, quite a bit of pent up hate on here....

Only in your fevered imagination. The excesses of the Crusades are well documented, as is the fact that Crusaders and at least one military order the Crusades spawned were capable of being a formidable menace to everyone who encountered them.

I've yet to see anyone denying Crusader atrocities unless it's to wind you up - in which case I can assure you that the Sack of Jerusalem never happened.

 

[MissingOTC]

I don't usually source Wikipedia, but its quick and dirty:-
The earliest initiative for the First Crusade began in 1095 when the Byzantine Emperor, Alexios I Komnenos, requested military support from the Council of Piacenza in the Byzantine Empire's conflict with the Seljuk-led Turks.

The Emperor wanted a professional mercenary army and that was what the Church wanted. But, the crusade caught the public imagination and as I've constantly tried to hammer into your skull, is the west had been under attack itself only a century or more before and it was inevitable.......

It's nice when you get so offensive so quickly. Stay classy.

The issue here is you use Wikipedia and I used....er....the world's leading expert on the matter and have sources.

Maybe if you did not rely on "quick and dirty" and had some diligence it may add weight to your argument. Irrespective of the fact that there had been wars before the Crusades, the point of the debate (which you make a habit of missing) was the Church's role.

Now maybe a time to have a think about basing your life and knowledge around Wiki and trying to actually read a book, but going by your past posts, I do not hold out much hope....

 

[MissingOTC]

Only in your fevered imagination. The excesses of the Crusades are well documented, as is the fact that Crusaders and at least one military order the Crusades spawned were capable of being a formidable menace to everyone who encountered them.

I've yet to see anyone denying Crusader atrocities unless it's to wind you up - in which case I can assure you that the Sack of Jerusalem never happened.

It's still talks. It still provides no evidence. It still claims it guest lectures.

Sorry chap, just waiting for your next round of "My missus does some work on de -radicalisation and her mates told her Muzzies were bad". Please post something like that again, it was so authoritative last time round....

 

[Emcon Ecomcon]

It's nice when you get so offensive so quickly. Stay classy.

The issue here is you use Wikipedia and I used....er....the world's leading expert on the matter and have sources.

Maybe if you did not rely on "quick and dirty" and had some diligence it may add weight to your argument. Irrespective of the fact that there had been wars before the Crusades, the point of the debate (which you make a habit of missing) was the Church's role.

Now maybe a time to have a think about basing your life and knowledge around Wiki and trying to actually read a book, but going by your past posts, I do not hold out much hope....

Actually I've read all of Runciman, which is laced with an anti-papist tone and numerous works on the crusades and I know the subject chapter and verse.... I gave you a wiki cut, because you suggested in an earlier posting, that I should use wiki ?

On modern crusade literature. It always tries to pull punches for Islam and go out of the way to describe crusader excesses, which were many. I should note, the crusaders first introduction to islam, was the Seljuk massacres of the peoples crusade at dracon and the sense, that the Greeks were treating the crusaders as mercenary vassals to be used.

Obviously, a year or two of heavy danger, starvation and bloodshed the crusades had to steal a line from the bible, had a period in the wilderness and were now hungry enough to cross the jordan river.

 

[FORMER_FYRDMAN]

It's still talks. It still provides no evidence. It still claims it guest lectures.

Sorry chap, just waiting for your next round of "My missus does some work on de -radicalisation and her mates told her Muzzies were bad". Please post something like that again, it was so authoritative last time round....

A strange post from one who got tearful abut playing the man and not the ball.

I think we've conclusively proved that elements of this country's Islamic population represent a threat and that you've no credible argument to the contrary.

I suppose you realise that one doesn't have to be an academic to lecture at a University and that folk like me are invited in to make up the deficit in real world experience, professional excellence and the practical application of expertise which is created if institutions are forced to rely on people like you?

I shall ask my wife if any of her colleagues have met you. I'm sure they'd remember a swivel-eyed loon with a fixation on the Crusades, difficulties with making eye-contact and a rather touching conviction that cut n' pasting a reading list on the First Crusade whilst eating a toffee apple is somehow a triumph of scholarship.

 

[MissingOTC]

Actually I've read all of Runciman, which is laced with an anti-papist tone and numerous works on the crusades and I know the subject chapter and verse.... I gave you a wiki cut, because you suggested in an earlier posting, that I should use wiki ?

On modern crusade literature. It always tries to pull punches for Islam and go out of the way to describe crusader excesses, which were many. I should note, the crusaders first introduction to islam, was the Seljuk massacres of the peoples crusade at dracon and the sense, that the Greeks were treating the crusaders as mercenary vassals to be used.

Obviously, a year or two of heavy danger, starvation and bloodshed the crusades had to steal a line from the bible, had a period in the wilderness and were now hungry enough to cross the jordan river.

Again, you seem to now be questioning the authority of modern historians as they seem to sympathetic to Islam? As they disagree with your world view? Fine, I can accept that. We really need to end this now as I have given you expert opinion and you refuse to actually a accept it. Not really much I can do here.......

 

[MissingOTC]

A strange post from one who got tearful abut playing the man and not the ball.

I think we've conclusively proved that elements of this country's Islamic population represent a threat and that you've no credible argument to the contrary.

I suppose you realise that one doesn't have to be an academic to lecture at a University and that folk like me are invited in to make up the deficit in real world experience, professional excellence and the practical application of expertise which is created if institutions are forced to rely on people like you?

I shall ask my wife if any of her colleagues have met you. I'm sure they'd remember a swivel-eyed loon with a fixation on the Crusades, difficulties with making eye-contact and a rather touching conviction that cut n' pasting a reading list on the First Crusade whilst eating a toffee apple is somehow a triumph of scholarship.

Is your missus hot?

 

[Emcon Ecomcon]

Again, you seem to now be questioning the authority of modern historians as they seem to sympathetic to Islam? As they disagree with your world view? Fine, I can accept that. We really need to end this now as I have given you expert opinion and you refuse to actually a accept it. Not really much I can do here.......

I haven't actually seen a fact from you at all...... For instance, I stated Dracon, which was the village described by Runciman where the turks had laid an ambush in a narrow defile and always interested me. But the histories have written the battle up as Civetot, which was where the crusaders retreated to, after the turks had panicked the christians into flight.

My world view is the facts are the facts and crusaders killed loads of innocent people, but so did the other side and the modern desire to cast the west as perennially bad is a distortion of history.

 

[FORMER_FYRDMAN]

Is your missus hot?

Smoking...

and, like any human female, way out of your league.

 

[Bravo_Bravo]

Outrageous, imagine being accused of being Bravo Bravo. We'd all be upset about that

You wouldn't, Titch.

 

[HCL]

", Pope Urban II initiated what is known today as the First Crusade". Can you understand that sentence?

You have asked me for sources supporting my argument, I gave you the world's leading expert on the subject.

You cannot post once source to support your argument that I am wrong. Not only are you are hypocrite of the highest order, but as anyone with basic comprehension can see, we are done here. Of course expecting you to be magnanimous in defeat was expecting too much I guess.

Off you f**k now.....

Intiated does not mean organised nor does it mean financed. Even a Grade 4/D English GCSE student would know what initiated meant in that context.

Misconstruing meaning is another low level troll tactic. You're a troll and probably not an indigenous troll as some of the howlers in your syntax indicate.

Fake. Troll. And an idiot too.

You wouldn't, Titch.

I owe you an apology. I posted you were trolling as @MissingOTC. I'm wrong. I apologise. You at least have a decent measure of wit and intelligence unlike this troll.

Edit to remove excess contrition

 

[MissingOTC]

Smoking...

and, like any human female, way out of your league.

Smoking I am sure, sapiophile maybe not.....

 

[MissingOTC]

I haven't actually seen a fact from you at all...... For instance, I stated Dracon, which was the village described by Runciman where the turks had laid an ambush in a narrow defile and always interested me. But the histories have written the battle up as Civetot, which was where the crusaders retreated to, after the turks had panicked the christians into flight.

My world view is the facts are the facts and crusaders killed loads of innocent people, but so did the other side and the modern desire to cast the west as perennially bad is a distortion of history.

You seem to be having an argument with yourself here, this has nothing to do with the debate at all, guess this was inevitable when you could not back up any argument.

 

[FORMER_FYRDMAN]

You seem to be having an argument with yourself here, this has nothing to do with the debate at all, guess this was inevitable when you could not back up any argument.

You seem very keen on backing up arguments. Is there any danger of you taking your own advice?

 

[MissingOTC]

You seem very keen on backing up arguments. Is there any danger of you taking your own advice?

Surely even you must be getting tired and bored of your own posts now?

 

[aardvark64]

Folks, the poo-poo thread is that-a-way :

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[FORMER_FYRDMAN]

Folks, the poo-poo thread is that-a-way :

------------------------------------------------------------------------>​

Forget the poo poo thread. As the OP predicted, the ideal home for this one is the hole.