Judgemental Shooting

#1
Well, been dicked with delivering a judgemental shooting lesson or 2 on Thurs night, but have no info on this other than 'If in your judgement the shot is right, then take it'...

Does anyone have any references I could look up, in order to formulate a rough lesson plan? I have to fill 2 40 minute slots!

Many thanks in advance

Lumpy
 
#2
Obviously i am a civvie still so feel free to discard this as you see fit, but can you not draw on the ROE for certain scenarios, Lots of question time to the guys you are teaching and pictures?!
 
#3
Grey_Fox said:
Obviously i am a civvie still so feel free to discard this as you see fit, but can you not draw on the ROE for certain scenarios, Lots of question time to the guys you are teaching and pictures?!
Using ROE and scenarios would be a cracking start, but the last ROE card I have is from Kosovo, and not really relevant to todays operations and ROE....
 
#4
Once upon a long time ago, in a distant land of sunshine, some nasty men decided to be horrible to me and my friends. So, lots of us were told to stop doing our usual jobs, change into soldier clothes and get our toys from the armoury.

When we gathered together, the most importantest Officer told us all about the nasty men and what they wanted to do to us. Then he made sure that we all had yellow cards in our pockets and, just to be safe, read out to us what it said on one. This was something about shouting "Stop!" in three languages, but it was all ever so complicated for little brains like ours. Then he and the Fierce One, the most importantest Not-An-Officer, saluted each other and he went away to his office.

That's when the Fierce One had his say: "You've all heard the CO. Now, let me tell you what's really going to happen. If you see anyone or anything trying to come over, under, around or through the fence, don't fck about, just drop it. We'll sort it all out later and you will be all right."

I don't know if that's what "Judgemental Shooting" means, but if it's any help...
 
#5
Right....going from the above, I've now found the section on ROE in MATT7. Quick 5 mins on that, then onto a few scenarios....
 
#6
No access to the Judgemental Shoot Training for Guard then?

DVD full of about 26 senarios and answer sheet................
 
#7
heidtheba said:
No access to the Judgemental Shoot Training for Guard then?

DVD full of about 26 senarios and answer sheet................
Nope. I've been jiffed with this as a lesson to give while a VIP visitor tours unit lines on Thursday. Best I have is a ROE Card Alpha, and Matt 7 from which to magic something up!
 
#8
Lumpy said:
heidtheba said:
No access to the Judgemental Shoot Training for Guard then?

DVD full of about 26 senarios and answer sheet................
Nope. I've been jiffed with this as a lesson to give while a VIP visitor tours unit lines on Thursday. Best I have is a ROE Card Alpha, and Matt 7 from which to magic something up!
Fcuk me, you've been stiffed.

Get down to your Trg Wg and ask for the above and the DVD for JSP 398.
 
#9
Edited in case CoC sees .....
 
#11
Anyone else think this thread was about the 'muppet shoot' at hythe and lydd when they opened it???

"Don't shoot the bloke with the drainpipe on his shoulder!"...................... 5 mins later, 'BANG' "sorry boss, thought it was an RPG!"
"You muppet".....................
 
#12
I've found something for you which may be a bit advanced and definately not on the approved list but it's a fascinating read if you get hold of a copy. I read the book in two days - well it was valentines weekend...

It's called 'Blink' and its written by Malcolm Gladwell. Its all about making decisions very quickly - thin slicing, he calls it - and how we do it. There is a chapter about a police shooting f*ckup in America and it explains what happens. Then he explains what really happened and you start to understand why people fly off the handle. Next time your boots are in someones in tray and they are going purple you'll know why.

His premise is that when under stress we become autistic. In otherwords blinkered and unable to take in, and act on, information. Our powers of observation, our ability to think and physically function goes downhill really quickly when in a stressful situation.

I agree with him because I've shot more things than most people. I now live on a farm and shoot deer - about 30 every year. That's thirty stalks that end up with a deer in my scope and me pulling the trigger.

His cure is to lower your heartrate. The lower it is the more you can observe. Without the facts you can't make a decision - this is your judgemental shooting bit.

Most civvy shooters get a thing called 'buck fever' at least once in their life (i've had it, don't mind telling you) where the rifle can be shaking in their hands. Pulse really high, breathing fast and shallow. The trigger gets pulled and the bullet can go anywhere. When you 'wake up' you don't know where you are, what you did, what happened - nothing. Anyone who has been in action will probably be familiar with this.

It is a really dangerous situation to be in and quite scary to watch. Address these things and it all calms down. You observe more and make a better decision.

As I say, the book is a really good read and offers a lot of information but it is not on your OC's reading list.
 
#13
Farmerbleep, I'll look for that book, sounds awesome!

Ref the judgemental shooting, in case anyone else ends up having to look into it, MATT 7, section 4 starts with ROE and continues through Use of force, and onto Judgemental shooting and finally shooting review. Everything I needed in one place, including script and powerpoint!

I wonder how many other people scrabble about trying to sort out lessons on this subject before finding the info so close to home!

Thanks for all the replies!
 
#14
Drill into your audience this vital phrase to be memorised:

"I was there and made a decision based upon the prevailing circumstances. All factors having been considered, it was the correct decision at the time. Anyone who was not there has no right to question the correctness of my decision."

It will never help in court, but is a good mantra for reinforcing self-confidence.
 
#15
So my lumpy little friend...

How did the course go?
 
#16
Farmerbleep said:
So my lumpy little friend...

How did the course go?
Can I be the first irritating plonker to state the bleedin' obvious? He's not doing it until this evening...
 
#17
labrat said:
Might be interesting to go into the foundation of the common law of self defence, which to a large extent ROE is based upon:
http://www.wikicrimeline.co.uk/index.php?title=Self_Defence
And very specifically and on topic:
http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKHL/1995/1.html
Clegg's case is a perfect illustration of point I used to make at presentations to tps coming to NI 70-72. The law of homicide encompasses a vast amount of legal debate. There is absolutely no way that this can be condensed down to fit onto 4 pages not much bigger than a credit card. To give this document - which has no legal status - to a soldier, is/was a betrayal of that individual when set alongside his infantry training. All of the instruction from 2Lt Ponsonby and Co (and me) clarified nothing and only added to the deceit that it assisted the actual soldier. Often, it took a very detailed and comprehensive interview and statement to illustrate what was in the mind of the individual - i.e. what was reasonable from the card on the lines that that was the full extent of his knowledge as to homicide. There were a number of times when someone could have had the Clegg treatment and charges were a near thing.
 

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