Judge wants all citizens to be DNA profiled.

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by The_Cad, Sep 5, 2007.

  1. Yes, only the guilty will have anything to fear.

  2. Only those convicted of a crime


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  1. Mr_Fingerz

    Mr_Fingerz LE Book Reviewer

    Who says that Europol or OMS Police Forces will have access?
  2. I thought it had already happened.

    "If you've ever handled a penny, the Government has your DNA on file." As a famous man once said.
  3. Bobath, straight out of the Simpsons. :D

    Not concerned, personally. I really doubt they'll find the body, so my DNA can go on record!
  4. It was stated on news 24, apparantly they already have access. It will make their life easier to arrest those who criticise the EU under their "Xenophobia" Law.

    It also said they wanted to redress the balance as there are a disproportionate amount of minorities on the current Database.

    Mind you, thats cos they commit a disporoportionate amount of crime.

    Nice to know were gonna be DNA fingerprinted in order to stop criminals looking bad.
  5. Now now. We've discussed this at length already - ethnic minorities do not commit more crimes, that's been established, its just been ignored by a few.
  6. Read this Grauniad article from June: Clicky

    And for those who's work gestapo prevent it:

    DNA database agreed for police across EU

    · New law heralds world's biggest biometric system
    · Police to share information on visa applicants

    Ian Traynor in Luxembourg
    Wednesday June 13, 2007
    The Guardian

    A battery of police data-sharing and electronic surveillance measures to tackle trans-national crime and immigration issues was agreed yesterday by governments in Europe, 15 of which also gave the green light to a scheme for the world's biggest biometric system.
    The system will store and allow sharing of data such as the photographs and fingerprints of up to 70 million non-EU citizens applying for visas to enter Europe,

    Interior ministers from all 27 EU countries also agreed on automatic access to genetic information, fingerprints, and car registration details in police databases across the union.

    The accord, set in Luxembourg and propelling a 2005 treaty into EU law, means police forces in one country will be able to enter the DNA details of a suspect in a European database, then obtain police information from another country if the DNA record hits a match elsewhere.
    Germany, which has been driving the data-sharing campaign for the past six months, hailed the accord as "an important day for Europe". Wolfgang Schäuble, the German interior minister, said the pact was an "important element of a European information network".

    The Germans and Austrians, who have been sharing DNA information on criminal suspects since December, are already claiming successes. According to the Austrian police the scheme led to the identification of a double-murder suspect: the arrest of a suspected burglar in Vienna in March, involving his genetic code being fed into the database, led to the discovery that the man was wanted over the murder of two people in Tenerife two years ago.

    Britain, traditionally a jealous guardian of its sovereignty on police and judicial policy areas in the EU, welcomed the accord, after diluting some provisions for police cooperation earlier this year.

    "Criminals do not respect borders," said Joan Ryan, the Home Office minister. "It is vitally important that our law enforcement authorities have the tools available to obtain information held by other EU countries as quickly as possible."

    At first the proposals were for police in one country to operate "hot pursuit" of criminal suspects across national borders without asking the permission of other countries. But that provision was dropped at British insistence, though it will still be practised widely on the continent. Ireland also opposed those pursuit plans.

    Criticism of the measures from civil liberties groups has been muted. But UK Conservatives criticised the data-sharing pact. "We are sleepwalking into Big Brother Europe while our government stands idly by," said the Tory MEP Syed Kamall.

    The shadow home secretary, David Davis, accused the Home Office of incompetence. "How exactly will our European counterparts ensure that the personal details of British citizens remain safe?"

    The biometric database for visas from non-EU applicants is said to be aimed at "visa shopping". An applicant refused a visa by a member state will automatically be disqualified from seeking a visa to any of 13 countries in the border-free travel zone of the EU called the Schengen area. Franco Frattini, the European immigration commissioner, said the new visa system should be in place by early 2009.
  7. ugly

    ugly LE Moderator

    So because the Police and Home Office mismanage a tool for detection of crime, the rest of us must subject ourselves to a loss of another freedom and personal liberty. If the plod cant catch meby normal detection then just look me up on a database. Far too frightning for me and another nail in the Englishmans coffin (or whatever). Either the Police and HO manage the system correctly or it gets destroyed for non convictions. Being bound over shouldnt class as a conviction. I have nothing to hide but I dont wish the sneaky lot looking through my drawers just in case they can find something!
    This appeal judge needs to look at the risk of wrongful conviction based on DNA evidence in comparisom to what was used before. I personally dont believe that DNA evidence is 100% infallible and reasonable doubt is a basic tenet of presumption of innocence. If in 20 years time we havent released anyone on appeal against faulty DNA evidence then I would accept it as 99% infallible, until then no!
  8. It's already difficult to convict someone on purely DNA evidence, and it is a rare occurence, as far as I am aware. I don't believe anyone should be worried of a conviction based solely on DNA.

    Don't really know what you're worried about - If the police have your DNA, then they won't need to keep an eye on you, or search your home, or whatever it is your implying? They'll come knocking if your DNA matches crime scene DNA, that's all. If you didn't commit the crime, I'm sure you'll have proof to the contrary?
  9. Further to my last post, I am of the tin-foil-hat opinion that this is all part of a socialist EU plan for totalitarian control over the UK.

    1. ID cards
    2. DNA database
    3. GPS tracking for all cars ('roadpricing')
    4. 'GPS' tracking for all mobile phones
    5. End of cash transactions
    6. HIPs and Council Tax 're-banding' of houses
    7. 'Smart' bins

    Dealing with my points in order, and trying to avoid going off on a rant:

    1. At a cost of over 9 billion pounds, the current government is still commited to forcing us all to carry ID cards with biometric data. Britain is one of very few countries in the EU that doesn't require its subjects/'citizens' to carry ID at all times. This is the difference between the UK common law (presumed innocence) and European Napoleonic code (innocence must be proved).

    2. GB already has the largest DNA database in the world (4 times larger than the rest of EU put together). The EU wants a DNA database, but why is it only happening in the UK? Tin-foil-hat moment: for better control of the recalcitrant brits later when EU assumes full, permenant, unelected control.

    3. Current Liarbour government wants to force all cars to have a GPS tracker device fitted to cars (at a cost of about 300quid per car) that will enable the government to know where every single car is at any moment in time. There is already a central insurance database of vehicles with the details of all registered and insured drivers. Cross-referencing is easy. Apart from revenue (up to 1.35 quid a mile) it allows everyones' journeys to be recorded (no matter where the car goes in the EU or elsewhere).

    4. Old mobile phones can be located to within 30-50 metres using triangulation. 3G phones can be located to within 10metres. Phone companies are now obliged, by law, to keep all such records (which are automatically generated) for over 7 years.

    5. Banks and credit card companies have used the technology of the London Underground 'Oyster' card to bring out new debit cards that use the same technology: they can be detected and read without the owner being aware (though the public face of this technology can only read cards held up to a scanning surface). Thus the government will be able to track you through your card, even if you do not use it for purchases.

    6. Under the guise of HIPS and revaluing houses for the Council Tax re-banding, officials will have an electronically stored record of your house. Not only the address, but detailed architect plan drawings, photographs of every room and the views from every window. Your garden will also be photographed and recorded.

    7. Smart bins with embedded microchips are being introduced across the country. These will record exactly how much trash you produce. Seems innocuous with the main risk being paying more because your neighbour puts his crap into your bin. Problem is that supermarkets are introducing 'smart' labels which emit a specific code when subjected to radio/magnetic radiation (this is so instead of having to put everything on the belt at the checkout, you simply push your full trolly through the scanner (looks the same as the anti-shoplifter device) and the till sees every item in the trolley. Very convenient. This information can be compared to see if there are any differences to what you buy and what you throw away.

    Very, very soon the government, and by extension all EU officials, will be able to determine within a few seconds:

    Where you are
    Who you are speaking to, or have met
    What your spending habits are
    What your eating habits are
    Where you sleep
    What you can see
    Etc ad nauseum.

    Personally, I don't want that, because on current evidence all the information will only be used to raise more revenue to pay for even more intrusion and more officials and to stifle freedom and complaints against authority. Will it be used against chavs, illegal immigrants (sorry, there won't be any because Liarbour want to grant a full amnesty to all of them), criminals? No.

    In conclusion, I wear a tin foil hat.
  10. Bloody hell, you are a paranoid man! You forget that both this government and the EU in general is incompetent, and would find it difficult to locate the largest sand dune in Europe, let alone pinpoint where people are within seconds!

    (Hint - The largest sand dune is in France)
  11. Recent events have shown that the Police are only too happy to abuse their powers for political rather than law and order reasons.

    Just look at how they use some of the new terror laws to silence dissent.

    Shout nonsense at A Liarbour Party Nuremberg Rally and you're arrested.

    Read the names of the war dead near parliament, your arrested.

    Sell a Golliwog in a toyshop you're arrested.

    Pretty soon, refuse entry to a Council Tax assesor and you'll be arrested (They did a team bonding thing in Disneyland at our expense BTW)

    An Englishmans home is no longer his castle.

    I'm all for anyone visiting our country to be DNA profiled as a condition of entry.

    Bit by bit, we are being robbed of our rights.
  12. ugly

    ugly LE Moderator

    Whatever happened to policing by consent. They wont have my consent to take my DMA!
  13. Which will be an offense, you will be criminalised and made to give your DNA.
  14. I couldnt agree more, that why i live outside Europe.......not coming back