JPA Fraud

What's the bottom line, punishment wise, for JPA fraud? I can understand someone getting caught and just being made to pay it back, but repeat offenders? (No, it’s not me or a friend). I see a large amount of WOs and Officers on the Court Martial lists and was wondering if that’s what they get nailed with
 

verticalgyro

MIA
DirtyBAT
More likely boarding school allowances.

Speaking to my mucker, ex sapper now MPS, he reckons most JPA/finance related fraud is done by AGC, the means and opportunity part of crime being on a plate for them.

He also pointed out a disproportionate amount of Monkeys go to MCTC, possibly because they have the attitude that they'll not get caught.
 

verticalgyro

MIA
DirtyBAT
Which reminds me, that documentary Glass House had an ex-WO2 AGC dude on it. I think he was the guy who had invented a unit and got all the pay for 130 guys for a few months.

I'd like to think he got caught when the Army tried to send mythical Unit to Iraq. I'd also like to think he called it 49PARA.
 
In my experience most of the low level ‘fraud’ is due to lack of understanding of allowances and claiming for the right expense in the wrong way. Lots of soldiers don’t claim for stuff they are entitled to because of an utter fear and a significant amount of faff.

For example, getting the train somewhere and claiming parking involves submitting an FMT1000 to obtain a non availability chit (in some cases the individual be given a car to sit it in a car park all day), parking the car, paying, obtain a receipt and submitting claim. Then almost always audit and justification in an accusing manner. All for the sake of less than a tenner.

The majority of real frauds JPA is committed by the experts and the vast majority of significant CEA fraud by officers :)
 
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What's the bottom line, punishment wise, for JPA fraud? I can understand someone getting caught and just being made to pay it back, but repeat offenders? (No, it’s not me or a friend). I see a large amount of WOs and Officers on the Court Martial lists and was wondering if that’s what they get nailed with
I think any real fraud is hammered regardless of the amount. Those who have to pay it back are generally those who are deemed to have made a mistake.
Theft/fraud is punished quite harshly compared to other offences.You can punch someone (repeatedly) and get a slap on the wrist, claim a couple of hundred quid that you are not entitled to and you are off to MCTC
 
This is not the instructional thread I thought it would be.
 
Someone who falsely claims for travel mileage for months should get Colly then?
 
Someone who falsely claims for travel mileage for months should get Colly then?
If they knowingly did it (By that I mean they were aware they were not entitled and still claimed it), then yep a custodial sentence is on the cards.
 
This is not the instructional thread I thought it would be.
Well if you want some hints and tips, if you are mates with the clerk, they could put you on various exercises to boost your LSA without you actually leaving barracks.
A few years ago a clerk was selling his services to those in 13 air assault (he took a fee from the LSA) but the stupid **** offered it to just about everyone and eventually someone grassed. I am unaware if the RAO department has taken any measures to stop it happening again.
 
Which reminds me, that documentary Glass House had an ex-WO2 AGC dude on it. I think he was the guy who had invented a unit and got all the pay for 130 guys for a few months.

I'd like to think he got caught when the Army tried to send mythical Unit to Iraq. I'd also like to think he called it 49PARA.
Wasn't it in Belize?
 
In my experience most of the low level ‘fraud’ is due to lack of understanding of allowances and claiming for the right expense in the wrong way. Lots of soldiers don’t claim for stuff they are entitled to because of an utter fear and a significant amount of faff.

For example, getting the train somewhere and claiming parking involves submitting an FMT1000 to obtain a non availability chit (in some cases the individual be given a car to sit it in a car park all day), parking the car, paying, obtain a receipt and submitting claim. Then almost always audit and justification in an accusing manner. All for the sake of less than a tenner.

The majority of real frauds JPA is committed by the experts and the vast majority of significant CEA fraud by officers :)
Personally I think we should just go back to clerks doing.

Come back, give them the receipts, get the money.
 
Someone who falsely claims for travel mileage for months should get Colly then?
As I understand it They will be charged under the Fraud Act 2006, they can only be dealt with at Summary hearing by permission (Armed Forces Act 2006, Part 19, schedule 1, part 2)

A person who is guilty of fraud is liable (Fraud Act 2006)

(a) on summary conviction, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months or to a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum (or to both);

(b) on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 10 years or to a fine (or to both)

:)
 
I can remember the rules around claiming MOA getting warped to suit different agendas on a weekly basis, in the end they made it so confusing with all manner of different JSP interpretations it just simply wasn't worth the effort.......
 

Boris_Johnson

ADC
Moderator
DirtyBAT
Not far off.

I remember 2009ish most of our guys were spread to the four corners. So when it came to getting an individual augmentee away for a HERRICK tour, I offered to drive him to Brize.

Four hour journey each way, but due to traffic took slightly longer. Got myself a coffee soon as I arrived and he said "you know you can claim for that right? And a meal..." I told him it would probably be more trouble than it's worth. He then convinced me to claim as I thought at least nine hours on the road, most of it outside normal working hours, why should I also be out of pocket?

I only claimed £1.85 when I got back, which surely enough got picked up for audit. Thinking the receipt was enough, they wanted the lot; deployment instruction, proof the journey was sanctioned, letter from line manager detailing my name on the movement order, written permission from the Chief Constable of Ayrshire, note from my mum...

In the end, they took the £1.85 back out of my pay two months later.

C***s
 
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You can commit almost any crime you can think of, murder, rape, assault anyrhing and when caught you will be punished as required.

However if you commit the crime of stealing money from the government then the establishment gets really serious about it all.
 

cam net

Old-Salt
You can commit almost any crime you can think of, murder, rape, assault anyrhing and when caught you will be punished as required.

However if you commit the crime of stealing money from the government then the establishment gets really serious about it all.
Its a weird one isn't it? if they steal from us it's legal and they are untouchable. Corrupt cnuts to the core.
 

spaz

LE
You can commit almost any crime you can think of, murder, rape, assault anyrhing and when caught you will be punished as required.

However if you commit the crime of stealing money from the government then the establishment gets really serious about it all.
Siphoning diesel out of vehicles and putting it I'm my car is still ok though right?
 
I nearly fell foul of the system and had some admin SO3 threatening me with all sorts of fraud type offences. Turned out that two admin clerks in the same office were paying me two different types of travel allowance (neither of which I had actively applied for). Even after it was all cleared up the twat was not satisfied and ended by saying "I hope you don't try that again".
 

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