JOTAC for TA

Discussion in 'Army Reserve' started by SilverBullet, Nov 22, 2007.

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  1. Great content on the course but...

    1. MK1v isn't enough prep
    2. It's very Regular/Teeth Arms/Been on Ops-Centric
    3. The 'TA Weekend' doesn't get you up to speed at all.
    4. The TA get the boring jobs in BC2T and CATT
    5. The Regs have already bonded and the TA are marginalised for the two weeks.
    6. DS frankly couldn't give a toss about the TA (evidenced by the one bullet point reference to the TA in the Officer Career Development presentation and the fact that the 'what's not great about the Army' session was all about the regs).

    Seperate TA course? I've heard it discussed... I don't think so as to be fair the course is great for content as I say but I think most 'mature' TA officer's with proper jobs will be grinding their teeth half way through week one. One or Two TA Offrs on each course doesn't help though. More of a presence would balance things out.

    Food is great though... and the cheese board... Mmmmm!

    Any thoughts (about the course, not the Cheese!)?

    SB.
     
  2. about as much use as MK1, which too is shit.
    Which is good as most TA officers have just been on ops, my course 3 had taken three weeks off herrick to do the course.
    It does however get you into the right way of thinking, even if the Wessex Yeomanry SO2 is a knob.
    Its all boring, I was warrior comd and would rather have been Dvr/Gnr.
    Only if you give them the opportunity to sideline you, subtle as a brick in the face and socialise.
    Thats because the regular army know fcuk all about the TA, more was learnt by the regular DS / students about the TA / TA Officers.
     
  3. msr

    msr LE

    1) Agreed, primarily because it is a case of : here's the link get on with it, rather than a series of Bde run w/es to ensure it is learned, not just memorised. (Same seems to apply to MK2)

    2) Get yourself on Ops then ;) I think about 1/3 of the bods on mine had not done an op tour though.

    3) Agreed

    4) I didn't get that feeling, but your mileage obviously did vary

    5) I did attend the regular course, but did not notice any 'them and us' - don't forget many of the regs will have spent a year at Sandhurst together a few years before.

    6) Given that some of my DS were TA I can't agree with that point. I trust you were firm and fortright on the happy sheet at the end of the course.

    Separate course? Well you could have it run on an arm / corps basis, just like they did in 1992.

    msr
    P.S. All submissions to the e-nirex gratefully received.
     
  4. 1. I hadn't done MK1(V) before I attended the course (naughty I know). However, I didn't feel particularly disadvantaged by this as it quickly became evident that not that many of the Regs had done MK1 either. Or if they had, they sat the exam with the book open. Most tell-tale were the scores on the entry test and the final test. Myself and my TA colleagues scored on a par with the Regs.

    2. "It's very Regular/Teeth Arms/Been on Ops-centric". Of course it is, it's based around a combined arms battlegroup, which is always going to have a [Regular] teeth arm unit at its core. As for the "Been on Ops-centric" bit, well there's a lot of operational experiencet ou there now, it can hardly be ignored can it?

    3. The 'TA Weekend' does the best it can I believe. I know that at the end of the 2 days, my head was spinning (not helped by not having done MK1(V) or never having used the seven questions before)

    4. Given that you only use BC2T twice and CATT once (in as far as I can recall), you're unlikely to get the best jobs. Personally, given my lack of relevant experience when compared with my regular peers, I was happy to let them crack on with it! Anyhow, being a Warrior gunner was a bl**dy great job!

    5. You're right on this point. But this is when it comes down to your own personality and projection. You just have to get in amongst them and let them know a. that you're there and b. that the TA aren't just along to make up the numbers!

    6. "DS frankly couldn't give a toss about the TA" - Am not sure about this point. After all, why should they, given that we're all 'one Army' now? I know I wouldn't want singling out for 'special treatment'!

    And I don't think a separate course would work particularly well. I learnt a lot from my regular peers, and it helps them understand what the TA can bring to the party.

    However, one thing I do agree with you about, is the scoff. Fantastic!

    I honestly think that it was one of the best courses I've done. Got worked reasonably hard, taxed the ole grey matter a bit but still enough downtime for a few cheeky shandies and a bit of phys. And the end of course dinner was one the most drunken times of my life.
     
  5. 1. Mk1 does what it's designed to do, give you a broad brush on a very big subject, the ARMY! thats why the cyndicates are mixed arms. Honestly did you do MK1 as stated it should be done? (only 5 out of a course of 80 said they did).

    2. Like Sandhurst they use the teeth arms as a basis to conduct the whole process, if you can run the op at a combat level then you can run it at a logistic level, same principles apply.

    3. weekend introduces the first week into two days, what do you expect, some of the TA guys that did the full three weeks didn't do much beyond whats crammed into those two days, you just don't have the 7 question drummed into you for 5 days.

    4. Boring jobs like what? the BG commander, Ops officer etc. Unfortunatly its what job you get picked to do live with that, small number of job and opportunities to do them, someones always got to be the brew bitch. CR2 driver is a great way to see how badly an armoured assault can go :). and an AS90 battery mover is a great way to spend your day shelling people :).

    5. Granted you have that initial break in, after one week they all know each other, this is where your personality (or lack of) shines through, get stuck in and before you know it your part of the team.

    6. Disagree with this one, DS were very good and understanding, again a reflection on how you work for them. TA officer career what? come on whos planning a career in the TA :), you career development is in house at your unit.

    Wasn't grinding my teeth halfway throught the course, just because i have a "proper job".

    Separate course NO!!!! what try to seperate the Part time from the Regs, the surprising thing about this course is it very leveling, you learn alot about people and the Reg get a good indication of the TA, remember this course is their first real exposure to the TA.
     
  6. I may have been on the same course...

    1. MK1(V) isn't the best, but it's the only option available at the moment

    2. It's Ops centric for a reason, but concentrates on the Adaptive Foundation, Genforce etc. We are fighting 2 medium scales at the moment.

    3. Didn't do the TA weekend (full 3 weeks instead), so can't really comment. The only time I met the TA DS as a result was on the dinner night, which I felt could have been better.

    4. I actually didn't mind - I'm a Medic PQO, so I don't often get the chance to drive/ gun CR2, even if it is in a simulator.

    5. I felt OK - though I can see the potential. Everyone has something to bring to the party.

    6. A bit ambivalent about this point as I don't really feel the "One Army", one size fits all approach is necessarily right, jury's still out on that.

    TA Career development is important though - if you want some of the constant themes on this board remedied (subbies not going on Ops with their tps etc), then quality career management is needed. Like it or not, the TA is a different beast from the Regular Army. This is ignored at everyones peril.
     
  7. Career development is but it doesn't need to be discussed on this course.
     
  8. Perhaps, but (outside of this august forum) where else could this be discussed at subaltern-ish level in an All Arms environment?
     
  9. msr

    msr LE

    Nowhere.

    Wouldn't it be great to have a subalterns study day at Bde Hq to allow these and other issues to be aired?

    msr
     
  10. What!

    All three of you ?
     
  11. 1. MK1v isn't enough prep

    Can't comment as I did the original version of MK1 but even that didn't really prepare you for JOTAC, MK1 was about developing your general knowledge of where you sat in the military and where the military sat in society (in extremely broad terms)... and it had a bone bit of psuedo science for janet and John...

    JOTAC did exactly what it said on the tin and was very relevant to all the young thrusters heading back to their regular units. What benefit it was to those returning to a TA unit is questionable however the benefit of exposing the regulars to their TA peer group can not be underestimated.

    2. It's very Regular/Teeth Arms/Been on Ops-Centric.

    and your point is?

    3. The 'TA Weekend' doesn't get you up to speed at all.

    I can't comment directly as I did the three weeks, but the other 7 who pitched up for the TA weekend didn't report any difficulties on the monday of week 2 and none complained of any disadvantage by the end of the course (although there must be the caveat that every course wil have a different experience.)

    4. The TA get the boring jobs in BC2T and CATT

    Well define boring... I was an Armd Sqn OC on BCTT 2 and I was a WR driver on the CATT, both great jobs in my opinion. On any course with 9 in a syndicate not everyone will get a command appointment, particularly when there are only three or so practical exercises.

    5. The Regs have already bonded and the TA are marginalised for the two weeks.

    Well that says more about your personality than the rest of the course. MSR also makes a valid point, most of my course were the product of one of three RMAS intakes, they all knew each other way before I got there and gave the appearance of having bonded within 5 minutes of being in the bar on the sunday night.

    None of the TA bods who rocked up at the start of week 2 were marginalised on my course and in fact all of the syndicates who had extra bodies on monday of week 2 went out of their way to integrate the new arrivals.

    6. DS frankly couldn't give a toss about the TA (evidenced by the one bullet point reference to the TA in the Officer Career Development presentation and the fact that the 'what's not great about the Army' session was all about the regs).

    Well I can't speak for the current DS but I would be very surprised if this is true. The course content has obviously been re-orged slightly since my time, the OCD part was in week 1 and was obviously all Reg as that was 99.9% of the audience. The TA weekend included a TA OCD chat and I was pi$$ed off to have not been informed it was happening as I was in the area at the weekend and would have popped in for that input.

    I don't know what the 'What's not great about the army' session is but intuition tells me it was a bitching session, were all one army now so surely the bitches were full time and spare time compatible, if not why didn't you join in with the ills of spare time service?

    Seperate TA course? I've heard it discussed... I don't think so as to be fair the course is great for content....

    Agreed, the whole point is to integrate the Reg and TA peer group at the early formative stage of their careers, MK1(V) was a step too far in the wrong direction in my opinion, the beauty of MK1 in it's original form was that it gave all of us an equal footing (and we all had as much difficulty getting time to do it...)

    ... but I think most 'mature' TA officer's with proper jobs will be grinding their teeth half way through week one...

    I don't really see what you are getting at here.

    One or Two TA Offrs on each course doesn't help though. More of a presence would balance things out.

    Very probably however how many TAYO's are there left that haven't done the course!
     
  12. 1) MK1 V is useless. However if you found any of the course challenging you probably should consider whether you should be an officer. I went having only finished Part 1 of MK1, and it all seemed pretty straight forward. Besides which, almost ALL of the Regulars had cheated on MK1.

    2) Teeth Arms Centric: Really? What's the ******* point if it is not. It is the best way to teach the course aims, to equip you to be a sub unit 2IC or Staff Officer. Just like at Sandhurst, where everything is based on an infantry platoon not a Troop of TA RLC.

    Get a grip!

    3) TA weekend does not get you upto scratch: Answer, do the full 3 weeks if you can. Stop complaining!

    4) TA get the boring jobs: I don't recall having any worse apointments than the Regs in my syndicate. I was BGLogO on BCTT 2, OK I was a CR2 gunner on CATT and strangely, the experienced Armoured officers were used to lead the Ex so that it did not turn into a Cluster **** in the time available. I also served as BG CO, BG 2IC and oh, Coy **** wit too just like everyone else from Regs, TA and RM. I don't think I was disadvantaged.

    5) The Regs have already bonded: Strangely, that is just human condition. I recall at Sandhurst (when you could still do 1 wk then 2). Those that rocked up for just the final two week, having done the prep week previously, were also a little frozen out. Team "storm" and "form", do the full course if it concerns you.

    I am bored now

    You must be a ******* Guardian reader!