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Jordan Peterson on Cathy Newman

As someone who went to a former Polytechnic that changed to a University when the Major Government made that decision, I shake my head at that. Do you really want Engineering and Science students not to be taught things?
Nobody said that. Nobody said some subjects should NOT be taught. Are you being deliberately obtuse?
Traditionally the academic establishment had a strong bias against Engineering.

Exactly how much critical thinking is needed to graduate in The Classics or PPE?

What has this got to do with Prof Peterson and attacks against him?
Deliberately - or otherwise - you miss the point :( !!

Of course engineering, plumbing, mechanics, nursing, should all be TAUGHT . . . but, in the more appropriate environment of a "technical colleges", where generations of accumulated knowledge can be passed-on to students . . . but, these are NOT subjects (that NEED), to be further RESEARCHED by undergraduates, at a University.
 

Yokel

LE
Nobody said that. Nobody said some subjects should NOT be taught. Are you being deliberately obtuse?

Deliberately - or otherwise - you miss the point :( !!

Of course engineering, plumbing, mechanics, nursing, should all be TAUGHT . . . but, in the more appropriate environment of a "technical colleges", where generations of accumulated knowledge can be passed-on to students . . . but, these are NOT subjects (that NEED), to be further RESEARCHED by undergraduates, at a University.

Are you joking? Enginering research not needed? Are you are how many high tech research projects are carried out at British universities, and their importance to industry and to nationally important projects? STEM departments tend to have close links to industry and Government departments.

Most if not all Engineeing PhDs and more than a few Masters are sponsored. Add to that consultancy and research work...
 
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I find it utterly bizarre that people who work for a major publisher like Penguin would actively want to destroy a book. They still have Mein Kampf in print ffs. They put themselves in the same league as the Nazis if they actively want to destroy ideas and information. Given half the chance they would have a decolonising bonfire.

I remember reading a blog written by a girl who works at Waterstones and she used to hide his books. It really is very odd, these people foam at the mouth about his Nazi philosophy but it is they who want to control our thoughts.

How strange it is for people to work with books and one of the most famous publishing houses in the world, and they yet have absolutely no understanding of the Western Liberal Tradition.
 
^that's what this no platforming nonsense is all about too.

If the book builders want quit over this I'm sure that they can. It can't be too hard to print books in this modern age. Probably more time spent on h&s warnings re cutty things and hot glue.



Of course.

The employment market may be a bit difficult for the next 18 months or so. But I would aplaud there morals.

As for the book hiding blogger... What does her manager do? Certainly not checking stock is where it's supposed to be.
 
Are you joking? Enginering research not needed? Are you are how many high tech research projects are carried out at British universities, and their importance to industry and to nationally important projects? STEM departments tend to have close links to industry and Government departments.

Most if not all Engineeing PhDs and more than a few Masters are sponsored. Add to that consultancy and research work...
Oh! . . . F.F.S. . .

Research engineers etc., will NOT be doing pure research at the new, trendy, repurposed, rebranded, former Colleges.

[END]
 

Yokel

LE
FFS Indeed!

Research Engineers do exist, but most of the research is done by academics that also teach and by graduate students. What are these new trendy colleges you propose? Are you getting the old Polytechnics (higher education establishments) mixed up with Colleges of Further Education?

Engineering by its nature is an applied discipline.
 
"Jordan Peterson’s self-help book 12 (not 20) Rules for Life is a good example. After becoming well-known for his views on free speech and gender-neutral pronouns, Peterson was adopted as a mascot of the alt-right. Boxes upon boxes of his books arrived in our shop, and most staff weren’t thrilled.

So after selling dozens of copies to both Peterson fans and people simply intrigued by the title, a few of my colleagues had had enough and ended up hiding Peterson’s books in a cupboard behind the till. “We’ll sell them if someone asks,” they said, “but we’re not going to advertise them on the shop floor.”

Surely it isn’t the place of booksellers to censor or interfere in consumer trends, is it? But, equally, we’re human, we’re political beings rather than customer service robots. And sometimes, we snap."

 
"Jordan Peterson’s self-help book 12 (not 20) Rules for Life is a good example. After becoming well-known for his views on free speech and gender-neutral pronouns, Peterson was adopted as a mascot of the alt-right. Boxes upon boxes of his books arrived in our shop, and most staff weren’t thrilled.

So after selling dozens of copies to both Peterson fans and people simply intrigued by the title, a few of my colleagues had had enough and ended up hiding Peterson’s books in a cupboard behind the till. “We’ll sell them if someone asks,” they said, “but we’re not going to advertise them on the shop floor.”

Surely it isn’t the place of booksellers to censor or interfere in consumer trends, is it? But, equally, we’re human, we’re political beings rather than customer service robots. And sometimes, we snap."

So basically, it started selling well and they didn't like that so hid it.

"We’re in the book world because we enjoy discussing ideas" my hairy ******* arse.
 
So basically, it started selling well and they didn't like that so hid it.

"We’re in the book world because we enjoy discussing ideas" my hairy ******* arse.

If I have to ask for a book I want, I may as well browse online.

Surely it isn’t the place of booksellers to censor or interfere in consumer trends, is it? But, equally, we’re human, we’re political beings rather than customer service robots. And sometimes, we snap."

I don't recall online order fulfillment operatives hiding books... And no, you're not political beings. You're a customer service provider. If you don't like serving customers there are other employment opportunities available.
 
I think part of the problem might be that students aren't really reading the Western canon anymore. University libraries are busy decolonising it and we're left with a bunch of young people who aren't familiar with the foundations of their culture or the idea of intellectual discourse.

If people disagree with Peterson then they should best him on the academic field and provide an alternative theory, not deliberately hide his work or refuse to publish it. The only people who do that are commies or nazis.

Clearly that haven't read enough to recognise the warning signs.
 
If people disagree with Peterson then they should best him on the academic field and provide an alternative theory, not deliberately hide his work or refuse to publish it. The only people who do that are commies or nazis.

Clearly that haven't read enough to recognise the warning signs.
I like the line (and can't remember where I saw it first) - 1984 was supposed to be a warning, not an instruction manual.
 
I just read that very line in an article about the Eton (where Orwell attended) tutor that may lose his position for daring to allow debate of feminist views.

Try this out for a quick shock to the system. If you put the quote from 1984 below in to Google chrome there are only 2 results

""It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies and noser-out of unorthodoxy."

1606665774612.png
 

pc flaps

War Hero
How strange it is for people to work with books and one of the most famous publishing houses in the world, and they yet have absolutely no understanding of the Western Liberal Tradition.
It makes you wonder why a significant part of a generation seem to have forgotten that tradition. Especially when, when they were just babes in arms, they saw the crumbling en masse of a totalitarian system in Eastern Europe.

In theory, they'd have been the generation in the perfect position to rediscover classical liberalism, and believe in freedom. Yet they're the opposite. It's easy to blame the media or teachers, but what abut the parents?
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
It makes you wonder why a significant part of a generation seem to have forgotten that tradition. Especially when, when they were just babes in arms, they saw the crumbling en masse of a totalitarian system in Eastern Europe.

In theory, they'd have been the generation in the perfect position to rediscover classical liberalism, and believe in freedom. Yet they're the opposite. It's easy to blame the media or teachers, but what abut the parents?
They didn't. They're at least a decade too young for that.

That's the problem. The people before them did the hard yards. They have it easy.
 
It makes you wonder why a significant part of a generation seem to have forgotten that tradition. Especially when, when they were just babes in arms, they saw the crumbling en masse of a totalitarian system in Eastern Europe.

In theory, they'd have been the generation in the perfect position to rediscover classical liberalism, and believe in freedom. Yet they're the opposite. It's easy to blame the media or teachers, but what abut the parents?

It is a parent's duty, imho, to educate their children about their culture and history, especially family history because that forms a part of their identity.

Most kids nowadays don't know their fathers, let alone their grandparents or great grandparents. What Britain did in WW2 isn't on the curriculum and the closest kids get to knowing anything about it is by playing Battlefield on the Xbox.

The core of Western philosophy needs to be compacted and taught in schools so that children can understand what it is that separates us from totalitarian regimes in the East (freedom of speech being sacrosanct and the freedom of ideas).

I suppose globalization, multiculturalism, identity politics and mass immigration all play a part in preventing that. It would be considered racist to point out the obvious superiority of Western civilization to any other on the planet, or any that has ever existed.

Freedom is not a universal value, power is. Throughout history power has been the main source of government and freedom is a rare thing that does not flourish often. Perhaps with Brexit we can still show the world that the people of our country are still sovereign, for now at least.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
It is a parent's duty, imho, to educate their children about their culture and history, especially family history because that forms a part of their identity.

Most kids nowadays don't know their fathers, let alone their grandparents or great grandparents. What Britain did in WW2 isn't on the curriculum and the closest kids get to knowing anything about it is by playing Battlefield on the Xbox.

The core of Western philosophy needs to be compacted and taught in schools so that children can understand what it is that separates us from totalitarian regimes in the East (freedom of speech being sacrosanct and the freedom of ideas).

I suppose globalization, multiculturalism, identity politics and mass immigration all play a part in preventing that. It would be considered racist to point out the obvious superiority of Western civilization to any other on the planet, or any that has ever existed.

Freedom is not a universal value, power is. Throughout history power has been the main source of government and freedom is a rare thing that does not flourish often. Perhaps with Brexit we can still show the world that the people of our country are still sovereign, for now at least.
What dinosaurs we are.
 

Bluenose2

Old-Salt
And if it is, Britain was in the wrong...

Kids in year 6 were telling me once that D-Day stood for 'Death Day'. John 11:35.

Both my kids (7 and 9) have done recent learning journeys on WW1 and WW2 (through VJ Day)

They've researched their great-grandfathers' military records, dressed as evacuees, taken medals/uniforms, photos etc into class. It was quite a profound thing.

They've also done Ancient Rome, Egypt, Greece and will be doing the Victorians soon.

The primary school syllabus is surprisingly rounded. Maybe that's a rectification of what's been happening over the last decade or so, and a recognition that younger kids LOVE history, because it's full of storytelling.
 

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