Joint Anglo-French Brigade to be announced

Do you supprot close military ties with France&

  • Absolutely

    Votes: 21 15.6%
  • Rather support

    Votes: 23 17.0%
  • My position is neutral

    Votes: 8 5.9%
  • Not sure that it is right

    Votes: 23 17.0%
  • I'm against it

    Votes: 16 11.9%
  • Stupidity on the highest scale

    Votes: 44 32.6%

  • Total voters
    135
#1
David Cameron plans for British and French troops to serve in single brigade | UK news | The Guardian



David Cameron will tomorrow outline plans for unprecedented military co-operation between London and Paris that will see British and French troops deployed as a single brigade in future conflicts.

Amid rising concerns among Eurosceptic Tories about a Anglo-French military treaty, to be signed at Lancaster House on Tuesday, the prime minister is expected to tell MPs that the co-operation derives from a "hard-headed" assessment of Britain's national interest.

Cameron will reach out to his party's Eurosceptics when he outlines the treaty at the end of a parliamentary statement on last week's European summit in Brussels. The centrepiece of the agreement, which will see all branches of the armed forces working together, will be plans for the French and British armies to be deployed in a single brigade. The first step will be a joint exercise in Flanders which is to be followed by more training together with the aim of deploying troops "alongside each other", in the words of one government source.

"Working together with France on defence makes good practical sense," a senior government source said . "This is about two sovereign countries working together based on a hard-headed assessment of what is in the British national interest."

Anglo-French military co-operation will be controversial for the prime minister because the Tories criticised the St Malo declaration signed by Tony Blair and Jacques Chirac in 1998. But Downing Street says that St Malo was about co-operation under the European security and defence policy, while the treaty is about bilateral co-operation between France and Britain.

Cameron will be at pains tomorrow to reassure Tory Eurosceptics that the Nato alliance remains the bedrock of British defence policy. But he is expected to tell MPs that the French president Nicolas Sarkozy's decision last year to reintegrate France fully into Nato – 43 years after Charles de Gaulle withdrew from the central military command – makes co-operation easier.

The prime minister will also make clear that Britain and France will stop short of full integration because there will be times when the interests of Paris and London diverge. France strongly opposed the invasion of Iraq.

The French and British armies have been involved in the same military operations before. British forces in Bosnia served under the command of the French general, Philippe Morillon. But he was a UN commander.

Cameron and Sarkozy are drawing up plans for British and French troops, with the support of their navies and air forces, to be deployed together. "You could see the French and the British deploying together in African countries where Britain and France have shared interests," one government source said of the plans that could see joint deployments in the future equivalent of the British operation in Sierra Leone in 1999, frequent French interventions in Chad and the operations in Bosnia and Kosovo in the 1990s.

The Anglo-French summit on Tuesday caps a week of intense European activity for the prime minister. It began last Thursday with the European summit in Brussels where he won agreement that future rises in EU spending should be linked to national budgets. In return the prime minister agreed to Germany's demand for a modest treaty revision to underpin future bailouts of ailing eurozone countries.

Over the weekend, the prime minister hosted Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, at Chequers. They agreed to establish a new trade experts' group, to be co-sponsored by Turkey and Indonesia, that will examine ways of reviving the Doha round of trade talks.The group is to be co-chaired by Peter Sutherland, the first director general of the World Trade Organisation, and Professor Jagdish Bhagwati, the intellectual father of India's liberalising economic reforms.



So it seems that on top of greater Navy, Air Force and Army co-operation between Britain and France, there will be a joint Anglo-French brigade that will train together and be able to deploy in areas of shared interest such as West Africa. The first stage of this is a large scale Anglo-French training exercise set to take place in Flanders.
 
#2
But when we go to war, will we only deploy half a brigade of British soldiers as the French have shown, they won't back us up in certain conflicts.

Although the Falklands could be funny, French troops bombed by French Exocet missiles enroute to the Islands, if the brigade ever had to retake the islands.
 
#3
Fantasy land time.

2 completetly different sets of logistics, 2 different Comms systems. 2 Different sets of doctrine and the mindset that uses that doctrine.

Does anyone see extra money being freed up for this?

More to the point. Does anyone see the French getting involved if it's not in their National interest ? Or a British Government being happy to blow chunks out of Africa every time the French decide to extract their nationals by force from some shiote hole?
 
#4
The last time we tried working with the French in Flanders it all went horribly wrong.

Whatever you do, don't tell the Germans they will start a race to the coast. If the Mayor of Paris is informed you will see the white flag being un-furled over the L'Arc de Triomphe and girly sized beer glasses being replaced with steins before you can say "we surrender".

On the plus side, it may give us reasonable grounds to sink the french fleet again which could justify retaining the Fleet Air Arm.
 
#5
2 completetly different sets of logistics, 2 different Comms systems. 2 Different sets of doctrine and the mindset that uses that doctrine.
I was thinking the same thing, along with conflicts that have nothing to do with the French (Iraq) and conflicts that have nothing to do with the UK (Parts of Africa) how can anything be done jointly?
 
#6
On the plus side, it may give us reasonable grounds to sink the french fleet again which could justify retaining the Fleet Air Arm.
But how will you only sink the French half of HMS Queen Elizabeth, or *only shoot down the French 'planes embarked on her?


*well, ok, the Etendardes and Rafales would be easier to identify...
 
#8
David Cameron plans for British and French troops to serve in single brigade | UK news | The Guardian








So it seems that on top of greater Navy, Air Force and Army co-operation between Britain and France, there will be a joint Anglo-French brigade that will train together and be able to deploy in areas of shared interest such as West Africa. The first stage of this is a large scale Anglo-French training exercise set to take place in Flanders.
You sure? I though Flanders was in Belgium. And that the exercise will take place in the south of France.
 
#9
Thats what the article states:

The first step will be a joint exercise in Flanders which is to be followed by more training together with the aim of deploying troops "alongside each other", in the words of one government source.
 
#11
Sinking their aircraft carrier won't be a problem, it's fooked.

Did a six month exchange with the french armee many moons ago, officers were all very switched on and willing to take on board different tactics and approaches to problems, the discipline was pretty harsh compared to our laid back attitudes, in general the junior ranks and privates were keen and willing to get stuck in, it will be an interesting experiment, as posted everything from logistics to comms is incompatible, mind you the wine ration was good stuff.
 
#15
I always remember the culture shock ... of being given wine in the ration packs whilst on French ranges. All the Offficer Cadets necked wine before DS realised the error. All that practice of wolfing down food and drink in 2 minutes at New College wasn't wasted after all. French hospitality ensured cartons were replenished - zoot alors!

I reckon our shooting got better after a few cartons of red, then again mine could hardly get worse
 
#16
Maybe a good idea. For all our international slagging we've been together pretty much constantly since the turn of the twentieth century. And as for integration - do different units in a brigade really need the same hardware? It wouldn't be too difficult to issue the kit out if we decided that they did mind.
 
#17
You sure? I though Flanders was in Belgium. And that the exercise will take place in the south of France.
You are probably right about training in the South but not all of Flanders is in Belgium. The Region du Nord is more or less " French flanders". Its the bits Louis XIV nicked from the Spanish and Dutch. They drink Belgiun style beer, speak with a Ch'ti accent that is to French what Geordie is to English and likve in places with Flemish names like "Dunkirque."
 
#19
Maybe a good idea. For all our international slagging we've been together pretty much constantly since the turn of the twentieth century. And as for integration - do different units in a brigade really need the same hardware? It wouldn't be too difficult to issue the kit out if we decided that they did mind.
Stores.


Old story. Russians(?) came up with 2 weapon systems that used 7.62mm rounds in different sizes. No problem in peacetime. Come wartime and units are having the wrong 7.62mm ammo delivered. No Happy endings here.

5.56mm is supposedly all the same across Europe. BUT. Would anyone be truly happy at sticking German made 5.56mm in the L85A2 ? Chuck in that odd 7.5mm MG the French used and you suddenly need to carry another nature of ammo, just to replen French units. That's more trucks loaded with stuff you don't use that you need to support, protect and service.

Yes, we can issue different kit and test all the ammo. We can train everyone on different kit.

BUT. Where's the money ?
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#20
Look at it from a frog pov, be cheaper come the evacuation from the colonies, AT will be Ryan air!
 

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