Joining Police from Uni

She has just finished her degree, on track for a First, Policing, Criminology and Forensics or some such

You should be very proud of her. There's money enough for 20,000 new recruits but this is already vastly over-subscribed, and the CID nationwide is understaffed, hence the DE with degree option for detectives. That said, the degree will only put her in the top quartile of applicants so she'll need to boost that: something community-based, exhibiting leadership, Prince's Trust or similar, and whilst the bleep test is only 5.40 as a baseline if she's cracking 10's she'll get noticed.

At her age she will probably be comfortable already with the correctness language, it's mainly the older people (above) who struggle with it and there's not a lot of time for it when under pressure.

The actual content of her degree course will, unfortunately, be of no value at all in the actual workplace. Most recruits now are graduates, and the average distribution curve gives us some average, some outstanding and some appaliing.
 
ETA: there is no harm in joint the usual way and doing the two years probation before applying for CID, but my experience of that is that it is riddled with office politics, nepotism and tokenism. You are beholden to being released off a uniform shift that will be perpetually understaffed, and up against a command team who liked to populate the office with Pretty Young Things* who didn’t like working nights** as opposed to people who have the desire and ability to be genuine investigators of serious and complex crime over long periods of time.
Yes. bear in mind here that anything I say here is probably irrelevant as I joined in the days when they took you as long as you had two arms, two legs and could write your own name with a crayon.

The problems with the police don't change. If you go uniform , there is a chance you might stay there. There is actually nothing wrong with that but it depends what you want. To actually be good at the job, I would say you need five years in a uniform in an, ideally inner city/ large town environment with suburbs. You develop a mindset which sets you up for CID. Don't grass on your colleagues . unless you have to. Sort it out informally but only pass it up if they are going native or are criminals ( the type of criminal who robs a bank, not expressing an off the cuff opinion) You will rely on them and only them to look after you, especially at the start.

I know a few young people who are trying to get into the North West forces at the moment. It seems to take a lot of time so maybe get a job to cover the gap in time. One of them ended up joining the PCSO people . When he eventually got his offer, he said he would have to take a pay cut to enter as a Constable. Maybe don't choose this way.

Each force has its own peculiarities in the North West. Research them thoroughly first. This is important when you are serving at the section level. Current serving may wish to expand on this.

Take with a pinch of salt and listen to those with current experience.
 
If we're going to continue with unrestricted immigration from countries with different attitudes to law and order then we're going to need some 6ft head-punchers, not pretty young things with degrees.

There's no point in whining about police staffing levels and recruiting on tv, and then making it virtually impossible to join. The whole thing is an utter train wreck.
Personally taking the doctrine of multiculturalism to its logical state I believe it is patronising and Imperialist to try to police non white Anglo people in the UK by our own laws and customs. We should recruit special units from their original cultures and Countries to police said ‘communities’. So for example North Africans by Qaddafi’s now underemployed experts or those Algerian specialists. Saddam boys know what they are about when it comes to law and order with Muslim communities. Russians for East Europeans as Ivan has had them under control longer than they have been independent, Various African militia for Africans.

And if the Guardian, BBC, Liberty or Amnesty kicks up, the patronising colonist racists that they are, then the retained South American ‘ extra judicial’ squad with plenty experience of settling disputes with lawyers, judges, ‘activist’s and journos is deployed.

Etc. etc.
 

Green_Homer

War Hero
She has a brain
I am almost 100% guaranteed to get off on time at the end of my shift, rarely have to deal with smelly people and despite having 5% less gross pay, take home more and my pension is more generous.... Good job I had my lobotomy * **

Serious answer - my old Home office force were virtually press ganging officers into District CID.

A good friend went across and liked it some much stayed and became an accredited DC and was acting DS soon enough . There are plenty of sideways / detachments options and nothing stopping her from moving about as her life changes but no guarantees the options will always be there at the right time.

*The hordes of home office officers clamouring to come across is quite a sight

** Disclaimer - all things said, do NOT join MDP if you want to do traditional policing

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 
It all seems very... complicated. I tried to join my (then) local force in '99 - which seems a thousand years ago now - and (thankfully) didn't get in. I don't know what they were looking for, but I weren't it.

My mate joined the same force a few years later after the PC rot had really set in. Something he said last week during a conversation about immigration really got me thinking. 'Embrace multiculturalism as it enriches our outdated, white, right wing racist society.' I asked him where he'd got that little gem from and he said it was straight out of the training manual.

I've heard similar from an ex-Met acquaintance. It's sad that it's come to this. So, unless you're prepared to be re-educated North Korea style, then I'd give it a miss. As they say... 'The job's fucked!'
Erm no, the saying now is 'The job really is f*cked'.
 

needlewaver

War Hero
Used to be called 'Squad bitches' in my day.
Some of ours have had a rude awakening. We’ve had a change of supernintendo, with the newcomer being a very hard faced no nonsense lady policeman. As such, the patronage that some of the pretties may have enjoyed had faded away and all of a sudden its standing and falling on your own ability, and no you can’t have a fourth go at the NIE exam, naff off back to response and let someone else have a go.
 

DTBA

War Hero
I’d best tell her to can it then which is a bit of an issue as that’d render her unemployable; she’s crap at typing and couldn’t make a decent brew to save her life.

On the upside, she’s got drive, a willingness to learn, no real desire to question someone superior simply because the superior has ovaries, is 6’1” and not got supermodel looks.

I’d also suggest you test your theory on size / looks -v- the ability to deliver a shoeing. You can do this by kicking off on an aircraft and wondering how you came to be upside down, in some pain and looking up at a 5‘ feck all, 7 stone beauty who’s had some restraint training and enough of your shit...
There's no way that a 5'0 woman, or any woman for that matter, is going to use "restraint training" against some of the meatheads who are roaming the streets. Do you think a scaffolder, with a PNC record a mile long, full of gear and drink is going to be bested in a brawl by a woman?

He's going to kick the shit out of her. I know that doesn't fly well with the Hollywood fantasies of women in uniform being steely eyed dealers of death but in reality it's going to end in tears and they won't be his.
 
And had common sense.
It was very different , I think. Selection was very quick but the weeding out process took place on section. Many resigned due to what people call bullying now. The only priority was to catch criminals unless you were traffic. I still fail to see why graduates are needed as an entry point. There should be a mix of people at the very least so that the officers represent the demographics they police. No false sympathy and no hatred.

I will stay away from this thread now because my opinions and experience are not suitable for a young person to read. Like you say, common sense should be the main thing.
 
It was very different , I think. Selection was very quick but the weeding out process took place on section. Many resigned due to what people call bullying now. The only priority was to catch criminals unless you were traffic. I still fail to see why graduates are needed as an entry point. There should be a mix of people at the very least so that the officers represent the demographics they police. No false sympathy and no hatred.

I will stay away from this thread now because my opinions and experience are not suitable for a young person to read. Like you say, common sense should be the main thing.
It was what all the old sweats used to say "You can have all the degrees in the world, but without common sense you won't be able to do this job". Another one was "You have to know how to talk to people". And they were right. Most times you could talk people down and get them to calm down and come around. Sometimes you can't and you have to get a grip of the situation and take firm action.

Even CID work is not rocket science. Just a case of following lines of enquiry, gathering evidence , and building a case file. I helped out on a Fraud unit for a while. Most Detectives avoided Fraud cases and put them in the two difficult box. But they were all slow time enquires and it was just a case of following the money.
 

MoleBath

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
I can’t seem to find a relevant thread as I suspect there are differences in joining the Police with military experience as opposed to civi from uni?

My daughter is 21, looking to join a North West Force preferably. She has just finished her degree, on track for a First, Policing, Criminology and Forensics or some such.

I‘ve seen reference to a DE Detective role but she is minded to go uniformed first to build experience but the Detective role is her ultimate goal.

I’d be very grateful for any informed opinion on joining, career path etc.

TIA
While awaiting Police vacancy consider becoming an Independent Custody Visitor. It shows commitment to the Criminal Justice world and a chance to see the custody process from the inside without committing a misdemeanour. Volunteer hours flexible and can fit around work or studies
 
Good luck to her and more power to her as well should she try direct entry as a Detective. No one should blame you for the opportunities offered to you which you take.

But with that having been said my experience of seeing these direct entry DCs in the Met has been less than positive. I can think of two who impressed. I can think of more who haven't. There is very little faith in the concept from most rank and file and the quality of Detectives and the cases they bring compared to the new ones is light and day. I met an investigator on one of the specialist teams - not even low level borough CID advocating a completely unlawful act

- "We need to search for evidence,"
- "Great. What powers do we have?"
- "Section 19 of PACE."
- "That's a power to seize evidence in the course of an investigation, how are we going indoors. Do we have a warrant, is this a Section 18 search?"
- "Oh. They usually let us. I suppose if they won't consent to our coming in to search, we'll nick the suspect and search his house under S32 of PACE and then de-arrest."
- "No, we absolutely won't, that would be illegal."
- "Oh..."

It's lack of experience and understanding, not willingly malicious. But it does knock my faith!

The best experience would be to join as a PC and get the full range of running, jumping, climbing trees as well as seeing the CID side. She can build up her skills and choose routes to specialise. CID will be available but she might find a real interest in another side of Police work, like response, public order, proactive or neighbourhoods, to speak nothing of the many specialisations on offer. She can also cut her teeth on low level investigations to build up her skills and then make the jump to the complex crimes that CID offers and beyond.

I am happy to be PM'd regarding all this, even just to act as a sounding board. She should also definitely see if she can do a ride along or two when all this covid nonsense is over.
 
Tell her to be a pretend Lezza , have an over active radar for hate crime and be on the alert and ready to bubble her colleagues for anything that they may say that she only has to THINK was offensive.

It's all very much PC BS now

Got a acquaintance, ex Mob, who is now a Detective ... shows the quality that you have as he has turned into the most right on, liberal , anti Boris (anti Tory) hating prick ever. He will be whatever the Service want him to be if it covers his ARRSE and get's him promotion. slimy lizard with no morale compass whatsoever

His Moousu, like mine, is black but she is an NHS Manager ..basically a coconut/bounty bar, who see's herself above anyone else of her race/culture, but who will pull the race card when it suits her fat arrse and pretend to be from a shotgun shack in an attempt to amplify her own ,so called,achievements..

She doesn't even have the class of a ghetto gal.

Pair of brown nosing c*nts ...


Must rush , they're coming over for dinner, Jollof rice and Cow foot, soon :)
Great rant! Have an Excellent award.
 
I can’t seem to find a relevant thread as I suspect there are differences in joining the Police with military experience as opposed to civi from uni?

My daughter is 21, looking to join a North West Force preferably. She has just finished her degree, on track for a First, Policing, Criminology and Forensics or some such.

I‘ve seen reference to a DE Detective role but she is minded to go uniformed first to build experience but the Detective role is her ultimate goal.

I’d be very grateful for any informed opinion on joining, career path etc.

TIA
I'm coming at this from a position of no knowledge but if becoming a detective is what she wants to do then surely it is in her best interest to do that from the very start. My understanding is that by joining in uniform she would have to do two years probation before being eligible to specialise and perhaps then may not be deemed ready to apply for a transfer. By joining uniform from the start she may find that in two years time the goalposts could have moved or she could be up against a different set of qualifying criteria or there may be different recruitment and application streams and available open posts due to being in the job as opposed to being an external applicant, or may find herself road blocked for any number of other reasons. Joining uniform may also put her at least two years behind someone joining on the same day as her as a DE.

I appreciate what others have said that joining uniform would give her the basic policing skills, knowledge and experience and open her eyes to different possibilities regarding other areas of specialisation but if CID is what she wants to do and is her ultimate goal and she has the opportunity to do it from the start then do it from the start.
 
I'm coming at this from a position of no knowledge but if becoming a detective is what she wants to do then surely it is in her best interest to do that from the very start. My understanding is that by joining in uniform she would have to do two years probation before being eligible to specialise and perhaps then may not be deemed ready to apply for a transfer. By joining uniform from the start she may find that in two years time the goalposts could have moved or she could be up against a different set of qualifying criteria or there may be different recruitment and application streams and available open posts due to being in the job as opposed to being an external applicant, or may find herself road blocked for any number of other reasons. Joining uniform may also put her at least two years behind someone joining on the same day as her as a DE.

I appreciate what others have said that joining uniform would give her the basic policing skills, knowledge and experience and open her eyes to different possibilities regarding other areas of specialisation but if CID is what she wants to do and is her ultimate goal and she has the opportunity to do it from the start then do it from the start.
I would have to agree with that. The vast majority of Detectives stay in CID once in it, unless they have been naughty. Going back to uniform is seen as a demotion. You wouldn't see a Techie applying for Thames Division, Mounted Branch, or DPG. Go for the DE Detective if thats what she wants to do.
 

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