Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by Malteser, Dec 10, 2006.
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Source: The Times
I thought the aim was to kill the other bstard not die for ones own. Wasn't there some famous general who said we kill them they kill us whoever kills the most is the winner?
If only this were true. We would have done Iran and half way to North Korea by now
What a load of UTTER GARBAGE. The thing that annoys me is the fact that this so called BMF gets a voice in this country.
Apart from the use of the word 'Martyr' which for me conveys the same meaning in Islam almost as 'Forlorn Hope'' , how is this utter garbage Bootneck?
Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori , is the message here, from the BMF.
Whilst all us are probably agreed that Dulce et decorum est pro patria actum is probably a far better state of affairs, the BMF are promoting that service for your country is a very good thing, and takes precedence over religion.
A very good friend of mine , FTRS'd into our Regular 1st Battalion, as a Muslim , and he is frankly Army Barmy. He had no qualms about going on Telic 1. He left the Army after his tour, but on speaking to him last week, he is itching to get back in. He loves his religion , but he loves Britain and the British Army far more. A very keen and enthusiastic Soldier. Personally , I'd put him back in uniform, and put him on the BART.
Before the last unpleasantness, we were on the verge of being green lighted to approach Mosques, to give recruitment presentations. I even had a series of chats with a local Imam, who was keen that his younger flock, were shown the benefits of uniformed service, and how this dovetailed nicely with principles of Islam. Obviously world events kiboshed that.
The only thing that angers me in this, is the Media will now give a voice to the counter-point of idiots.
We need more statements like this, but possibly less use of the word Martyr.
Good post PTP. May I suggest that you invite your friend to participate in discussions here on ARRSE
Less of the "martyr", please. I want no part of a country or religion or organisation which reveres such tosh. We have our heroes from the past thousand years, and we have frequently had our dead heroes. None of mine were 'martyrs', and I'm not changing that now.
I'm struggling a bit here trying to get my point across without sounding racist/bigot whatever. A soldier is a soldier. The Salvation Army caters for Christian soldiers. I can see nothing especial about a Muslim soldier beyond a Hebrew soldier, a Gurkha soldier, a Chinese soldier. The religious aspects should be divorced from soldiering. Therefore I worry a bit when a leading member in a taskforce set up by Tony Blair publicises the initiative. In another thread on this forum, we have a very perceptive US Major mention some aspects of Islamic ways. Amongst these is the tendency to agree with the person they are speaking to; reflecting that persons attitude as a matter of politeness. I am also personally familar with this concept. Putting the two together I find myself saying "So - what is the big deal here? Why are we being told this?"
this thread name is misleading and incorrectly quoted from whats being stated by the BMF in the article.
they are saying if you die whilst on active service you are a martyr to your faith and nation, in the same vein as 'The Glorious Dead' of our nations past conflicts.
People are getting the term 'Martyr' confused as only applying to suicide bombers of the radical fringe.
its a term used to describe anyone who dies fighting for his belief in his god and his nation/people.
the BMF are stating here that young muslims joining the british army are doing a noble and patriotic act and are in no way in dispute with the muslim faith.
good on them.
I was proud to have a young guy on Granby in my team. A Pakistani guy from Leeds that was great at cricket & loved the firm. Mohammed (known as Mo) was the funniest character with a broad Yorkshire accent and absolutely key in our missions. I managed to get him a certificate of commendation from Gen de la Billiere in the GW1 Honours. A few years later at Drumcree whilst confronting Portadown nutters, I told a drunk loyalist scumbag "I have Paki soldiers from West Yorkshire who are Muslim and are more British than you. What have you done for the UK ?" He had to think long & hard. Fair play to the BMF for promoting Patriotism for the flag & country & being good & true to your beliefs. I hope that the spirit of Jabron Hashmi lives on and we attract great folk from non Christian religion who can contribute to the British Armed Forces.
Please dont take this the wrong way, but did Mo actually do something to deserve a commendation or did you recommend him because he was a Pakistani?
My point here goes back to what oldredcap said a "soldier is a soldier" their skin colour or religion should have nothing to do with it.
I'm sure Muslim youth will find this idea incredibly persuasive. It's about as well thought out and compelling as anything that has come from Blair.
Personally, you pay your money and you take your choice. If you wish to be considered British Muslim, great. If you wish to be considered a Muslim who happens to live in Britain, good luck to you, but don't get your hair off if the rest of us carry on doing our own thing. If you don't like it, you're free to leave at any time.*
*Applies to anyone of any other persuasion who puts any great deal of stock in the idea of a being who lives in the sky and controls everything.
Once they are in the mob.
Now, how does a young Muslim , who may be thinking of joining the colours know that value?
The article is addressing Muslims considering a career in the Armed Forces, not those already serving.
He needs to put aside his Muslimhood at the stage where he first starts to think about joining. You accept that there are no grounds for types of soldier once engaged so he needs to get into that mindset and make his choice. Otherwise, there is risk he will find that supressing his Muslimhood (that word again - sorry but it is the best I can do) is not possible and he cannot continue his army career. There are many who have to give something up to join up. Parental disapproval, work towards forming a career to be abandoned, getting to sleep on the wet patch - whatever.
I'm all for it - don't get me wrong. I just see trouble ahead if the guy comes in on a false premise - and, I'm prejudiced just because of the association with that tw*t B'liar.
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