John McCain Dead

Rich people with inherted wealth would achieve nothing without that inherited wealth and family connections.
!
How can you know that?
I am proud to have not achieved by my failure to collaborate with an enemy power.
I!
Send key setting, over. On second thoughts, please don’t.
I have achieved in that I am one of the very few working class white males who has had a university education.
!
Well done you. What subject - class struggle, basket weaving or something worthwhile? Of course you would have more fellow working class degree holders keeping you company if Labour hadn’t trashed all the Grammar schools back in the day.

As for the rest of your post, they also serve who stand and stag on. Not your fault you never deployed operationally, but perhaps you should reserve judgement on subjects you know not of. And I sincerely hope your degree wasn’t anything to do with medicine or biology, as I’d have to remove my arm in order to sit on it (not something I plan to do).
 
Rich people with inherted wealth would achieve nothing without that inherited wealth and family connections.
I am proud to have not achieved by my failure to collaborate with an enemy power.
I have achieved in that I am one of the very few working class white males who has had a university education.
As for my service record, my unit was not sent to any conflict, which is no fault of mine.

Please sit on your right arm and once it goes dead punch yourself in the face. Thanks!
There's more rot in that post than there is in a dead tree on the floor of a rainforest.
 
Rich people with inherted wealth would achieve nothing without that inherited wealth and family connections.
I am proud to have not achieved by my failure to collaborate with an enemy power.
I have achieved in that I am one of the very few working class white males who has had a university education.
As for my service record, my unit was not sent to any conflict, which is no fault of mine.

Please sit on your right arm and once it goes dead punch yourself in the face. Thanks!
You were captured by an enemy power when and where. and how long were YOU tortured?

So in point of fact you could claim you are the best astronaut even if you were never sent to space, the best astronomer even though you never counted the rings around Uranus


Son unless you faced the torture McCain and the other POW's faced you have no right to judge them

Eat a shotgun so you dont pollute our gene pool further
 
English language and linguistics. I tried to get onto the basket weaving course, but they would not have me.
Mr. Dave you seem taken with connection, status and education as some measure of judgement of a soul. It's a point I understand, having lived to the age I am now.

McCain admitted to a couple of POW's in particular that " he'd talked" the reply to which was "what took you so long".

Survival in the POW environment depended on the 'inner man' someone who could live with a temporary defeat by his captors and still set a standard of behaviour for others. The brutality on his person rarely relented, thanks to his dad, ergo the social gatherings, dressing up occasions and his alma mater confederates were of little value. He learned from that.
A man of opinion substantiated by experience rather than political expediency to the utter frustration of his political party.

Yes, he gave and he took from his associations but all to the good I firmly believe.
 
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I was captured by the conservative government and the tortures been going on for almost nine years.
How awful for you.

I was sent to three wars by the Labour government. I wager my experiences are a little worse than yours were under "Tory torture".
 

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@MrDave your time here is going to be short if you do not stop with your loon postings.
 
I am proud to have not achieved by my failure to collaborate with an enemy power...




I am one of the very few working class white males who has had a university education.
!
A degree in English you say? Did you buy it from an advert? Did they give you credits for 'life experience?' Because I'm struggling to understand that sentence.

What's more, speaking from personal experience, it's not THAT rare for white working class males to have university education.
 
Great. Another wibbler on Arrse. If you study resistance to interrogation techniques, the object is not to hold out come what may.

The object is to buy yourself, and your team in the field, enough time to complete their mission and get out of harm's way by controlling what information you give out.

Once enough time has passed, you may as well blab as the information will no longer be of any use, and keeping shtum could risk other captor's lives.

This is all McCain did, and most servicemen would have been aware that statements from POWs were recorded under duress.
 
We don't have conscription, so you made a choice.
I have no gripes about personally going on operations (although a number of friends who won't ever be coming back might disagree with me), however I do question the lies and lack of planning by the Government of the day.
The conservatives voted for those three wars.
Irrelevant. Labour held a majority, I was sent on operations at the behest of Tony Blair's Government. We live in a democracy; the responsibility for a Government's action resides with that Government.

But that's enough about your deflections; your "capture" by the Conservative government and ten years' "torture" is a rather pathetic attempt at comparison with a man who suffered while serving his Country far more than either of us. Your small minded and inaccurate posts about McCain clearly display your mettle; you are a despicable and hate-filled little man.
 
Yes nobody ever says anything more than name, rank, number, and date of birth? Oh I forget, they can make anyone talk. Perhaps the Gulf War POWs who were paraded on TV by Saddam should have been punished?

Here is a paper written by John S McCain, Cdr USN at the Naval War College in 1974:

The Code Of Conduct And The Vietnam Prisoners Of War
If I remember my 'conduct under capture' lectures correctly the best they hoped for was that you could keep shtum for a couple of hours until the live operational stuff was irrelevant, after that bluff it with heavy regional accents and trying to look unimportant.
 
Please link the proof to backup your statement.
Nope, you are expected to prove your sources.......that's how it works in the Int world, clue, back in the day if you quoted Pravda as a single source for NATO warcrimes you'd be laughed out the office
 
Forgive me if I abuse the expression - "in those times". I 'm not current with UK policy on 'Conduct After Capture' having departed HM Forces in Jan. 1992. In 'those times' military behaviour was governed by Article 47 of The Geneva Conventions, precised as The 'Big Four' as you very correctly phrase it.

In reality 'Prone to Capture' personnel were educated that codes, signal frequencies et al would be changed some number of hours after them failing to keep to the mission brief with the assumption being established that they had been captured. The SOP's gave a measure of comfort that were they to be brutalised during the preceding hours following capture they had at least a 'timeline' when they knew they would not endanger / compromise an ongoing operation. How they dealt with that knowledge lay in the ability of the individual's characters to withstand physical coercion to impart mission detail

We operated to the letter of the GC policy, enforced by our experiences in Korea and reinforced by our Cousines experiences in Vietnam as a current military lesson. Vietnam gave us a lot to think about combined with the experiences of our diplomats being held in South American countries in those times.
Our training course reflected this. Personalities, such as Senator John Mc Cain, Everette Alvarez, Orson Swind#### were profligate in communicating their experiences, anxious to ensure the 'human factor' and what we were likely to face..
I remain eternally grateful for their cooperation to my generation, for their honesty, directness, explicit narratives, when I was required to argue a policy of a "cover story" option for rank and file military. We were now into the NI environment and the reality of military personalities being held by the 'men of violence'.
On a minor, probably irrelevant, point isn’t that Article 17 rather than Article 47?

17 is about name, rank, serial/military number and DOB.

47 is about moving sick POWs and all POWs when the front is approaching.
 
On a minor, probably irrelevant, point isn’t that Article 17 rather than Article 47?

17 is about name, rank, serial/military number and DOB.

47 is about moving sick POWs and all POWs when the front is approaching.
My error and thank you for the correction.
 
The training film is here:



There was a Seconds From Disaster documentary about the Forrestal fire about ten years ago. A Zuni rocket was accidentally fired from a Phantom park up and exploded amongst fueled and armed Skyhawks. Fuel tanks and bombs fell and were involved in the fire. Two things made this situation catastrophic:

1. The US was running out of bombs, so old bombs left over from World War Two had been supplied the previous days. In an attempt to get rid of them as soon as possible, they were loaded onto the aircraft launching that day. They had old explosives that were more sensitive to fire, and none of the thermal protection modern bombs had, so the cook off time was low, much less than what the firefighters expected.

2. The Zuni rocket was a nasty thing - but as well as the safety pins it had a connector which normally would be plugged in at the last minute prior to launch, on the catapult. However en route to Vietnam, some argued (and won) that to save time, the connector should be plugged in beforehand. The safety pins could come lose in wind, such as when the carrier was steaming into wind, therefore having more than one line of defence was vital.

3. The Phantom was starting up pre launch, and was switching from external to internal power, causing a power surge. The safety pin and ribbon must have been blown lose, the Zuni had been plugged in (as far as I know it was a simple weapon, just needing a current to ignite the rocket motor) and off it went.

The programme might be on YouTube - it is worth watching.
I have found the Forrestal episode of Seconds From Disaster on YouTube.

Here it is:


I have no idea why anyone would be interested in starting rumours and conspiracy theories when a extensive investigation took place. A fire like that is about as bad as it gets, criticising those who were there from a comfy armchair is just not on.

Do the critics stop and think "how would I have coped?"
 
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