Jocks to wear skirts!

#1
(apologies to the teuchters ;) )

It appears that the new Royal Regiment of Scotland will have bare knees. This is all very well for the shortbread-tin image of the Scottish soldier but flies in the face of centuries of the Lowland tradition of the trews.

http://news.scotsman.com

New kilt the 'final insult' to soldiers

IAIN LUNDY

THE three Lowland infantry regiments, whose members have traditionally worn tartan trews for centuries, will be forced to wear kilts when the government's planned new Scottish "super-regiment" is formed next year.

Outraged ex-servicemen, who already believe that the loss of their individual regiments is tantamount to erasing much of Scotland's military history, say the imposition of a uniform kilted dress code further erodes their regimental identity.

Campaigners for the three regiments - the Royal Scots, the King's Own Scottish Borderers and the Royal Highland Fusiliers - claim tartan trews have been worn by Scottish soldiers since the mid 17th century, almost 75 years before kilts were introduced.

"This government is doing to us what Hitler never managed to do, wiping us out and at the stroke of a pen," said Malcolm Nichol, former secretary of the Berwick branch of the King's Own Scottish Borderers and a member of the regiment for 26 years.

"We are very, very angry about this. The regiment will have no identity left at all and 316 years of history will be down the drain. It is heartbreaking. Everybody looks at Scottish soldiers and thinks we all wear the kilt. It is not true, we are proud to be Lowlanders, we don't want to be Highlanders," said Nichol.

Kilts are worn by the three existing Highland regiments, The Black Watch, the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders and The Highlanders. It is believed the Ministry of Defence favours the government tartan worn by the Argylls as the uniform for the new Scottish regiment.

The government plans to merge the KOSB and the Royal Scots into one battalion then amalgamate it with the remaining four regiments to form the Royal Regiment of Scotland. According to campaigners, the Council of Scottish Colonels, which rubber-stamped the amalgamation, is now "squabbling" over the precise details of the new regiment's uniform.

Retired KOSB Brigadier Allan Allstead said: "We are losing everything, we are being absolutely done down in the biggest possible way and I feel particularly bitter about the way it has been done."

Charlie McGrogan, a former colour sergeant with the Royal Scots, said: "It looks as thought someone in the Ministry of Defence has sat down and gone through his book of English prejudices and decided to sort Scotland out. All these prejudices are coming to roost in the new uniform."

Regimental secretary of the Royal Highland Fusiliers, Major William Shaw, said, "When people talk about Scotland overseas the image is kilts. When I heard about this, people of my vintage were saying 'no way'." But he admitted: "The young element in the regiment don't seem to mind."

A spokesman for the Army in Scotland confirmed the decision had been taken by the Scottish Council of Colonels that the new regiment should wear kilts. But he added: "Each of the existing regiments will retain something from their uniforms, possibly hackles or flashes."
 

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#2
I read the article yesterday and this is not exactly breaking news. This was known when the decision to 'merge' the Scottish Regiments was made. The only argument has been round the tartan and various accoutrements.
 
#3
THE three Lowland infantry regiments, whose members have traditionally worn tartan trews for centuries,
I suppose one could make that argument as 'centuries', but many Lowland regiments didn't actually get 'tartan' trews until the end of the 19th century-ish.


Apparently the Royal Scots Fusiliers never really wanted them. (probably still reflected in the current attitude of the RHF) While the HLI, being stuck with tartan trews, wanted the kilt, which it regained post WW2 then lost when almagamated with RSF.
 
#4
Charlie McGrogan, a former colour sergeant with the Royal Scots, said: "It looks as thought someone in the Ministry of Defence has sat down and gone through his book of English prejudices and decided to sort Scotland out. All these prejudices are coming to roost in the new uniform."
If you study the history of Scottish Regiments, their uniform, and orders from 'Horse Guards' he may not be far off.
 
#5
RCSignals said:
THE three Lowland infantry regiments, whose members have traditionally worn tartan trews for centuries,
I suppose one could make that argument as 'centuries', but many Lowland regiments didn't actually get 'tartan' trews until the end of the 19th century-ish.


Apparently the Royal Scots Fusiliers never really wanted them. (probably still reflected in the current attitude of the RHF) While the HLI, being stuck with tartan trews, wanted the kilt, which it regained post WW2 then lost when almagamated with RSF.
I`m under the same impression as RC. In fact i`m sure that the Lowlanders didn`t start wearing the trews until after Cardwell,and then the trews were of Govt No 1 tartan,ie; Black Watch. The KOSB didn`t start to wear trews of "Leslie Tartan" until 1900,and the Royal Scots didn`t wear "Hunting Stuart" until 1907. However I would never underestimate or challenge the"Scottishness" of the Lowlanders in general.

I can sympathise with certain sections who are angred by their Regiment becoming Kilted,and my stance would probably be similar to them if it were decided to put Highlanders in Trews as No;2s (Ceremonial/ No;1s/ etc).

However the kilt is now seen as the national dress of Scotland,with some of the best tartan weaved in the borders.This is promoted in a big way by all the kilt shops on Princess Street/Royal Mile etc,ie Edinburgh,which we all know is in the Lowlands.

I think the new "dress uniform" will be horrific. Just look at the dress worn by The Highland Band/Lowland Band of the Scottish Division. By the way the new Regiment will have just one military band,and some of the musicians will be facing either transfer/redundancy.

Basically the uniform issue looks like another case of divide and conquer. :evil:
 
#6
It will be interesting to see how they apply this to the TA battallions. I for one have no intention of purchasing the new rig, I'm sure there'll be a few in the same boat.
 
#7
Jagythistle said:
It will be interesting to see how they apply this to the TA battallions. I for one have no intention of purchasing the new rig, I'm sure there'll be a few in the same boat.
I suppose it depends whether the TA Battalions, while being battalions of the RRS, keep their Company-level affiliations.

As an aside, in the 1980s there was still a set of kilted Royal Scots mess dress held at No.1 Company of 2/52 Lowland from the days of the "Dandy Ninth" - 9th (Hldrs) Bn RS (until some fat, useless, b**tard called Steve disappeared with it).
 
#8
Gravelbelly said:
Jagythistle said:
It will be interesting to see how they apply this to the TA battallions. I for one have no intention of purchasing the new rig, I'm sure there'll be a few in the same boat.
I suppose it depends whether the TA Battalions, while being battalions of the RRS, keep their Company-level affiliations.

As an aside, in the 1980s there was still a set of kilted Royal Scots mess dress held at No.1 Company of 2/52 Lowland from the days of the "Dandy Ninth" - 9th (Hldrs) Bn RS (until some fat, useless, b**tard called Steve disappeared with it).
Ah I remember him well.
 
#10
Jagythistle said:
Gravelbelly said:
Jagythistle said:
It will be interesting to see how they apply this to the TA battallions. I for one have no intention of purchasing the new rig, I'm sure there'll be a few in the same boat.
I suppose it depends whether the TA Battalions, while being battalions of the RRS, keep their Company-level affiliations.

As an aside, in the 1980s there was still a set of kilted Royal Scots mess dress held at No.1 Company of 2/52 Lowland from the days of the "Dandy Ninth" - 9th (Hldrs) Bn RS (until some fat, useless, b**tard called Steve disappeared with it).
Ah I remember him well.
He's kept his head down since he mis-sold some insurance policies to a brother (well, sister) officer. Not sure what he's up to now.
 
#11
Right here GROWNUPS! Must confess I'm not surprised, as someone pointed out earlier in the thread, it's been common knowledge for some time now that RRS would be kilted. Though the great danger is that the SCOTS will be dressed in some parody of all five former regiments. Let's see, Government tartan, red and white diced hose, black buttons on the spats, Gordon's sporran, subdued buttons and collar dogs (a' la Royal Scots officers service dress) Argyll's glengarry with a blackcock feather, black patent leather belt (in memory of the Cameronians (Scottish Rifles)) and red roses on Minden Day (as a sop to the KOSB). In TOS:- black hackle for 1SCOTS, red/white (old HLI) 2SCOTS, red 3SCOTS, blue 4SCOTS, white for 5SCOTS.

Badgers all over the world can now exhale though I think ostriches will be gulping nervously as all pipers and drummers will wear feather bonnets (so the BW can keep the red hackle).

Regimental march quick time "Blue Bonnets". Slow time "The Borderers". Charge "Braes o' Mar" (had to slip those in).

RHQ and museum Edinburgh Castle, perhaps with a satellite museum at Perth.

Apart from that there'll be no change!!!

Can't really summon up the energy to become irate over uniforms/accoutrements as it's a brand new regiment. Though I'm still p****d at those nyaffs disguised as Regimental Colonels (except the Colonel of the 25th) who allowed the decimation to happen! Next!
 
#12
Gravelbelly said:
Jagythistle said:
Gravelbelly said:
Jagythistle said:
It will be interesting to see how they apply this to the TA battallions. I for one have no intention of purchasing the new rig, I'm sure there'll be a few in the same boat.
I suppose it depends whether the TA Battalions, while being battalions of the RRS, keep their Company-level affiliations.

As an aside, in the 1980s there was still a set of kilted Royal Scots mess dress held at No.1 Company of 2/52 Lowland from the days of the "Dandy Ninth" - 9th (Hldrs) Bn RS (until some fat, useless, b**tard called Steve disappeared with it).
Ah I remember him well.
He's kept his head down since he mis-sold some insurance policies to a brother (well, sister) officer. Not sure what he's up to now.
That was after his starring RSO role?
 
#13
Busterdog said:
Right here GROWNUPS! Must confess I'm not surprised, as someone pointed out earlier in the thread, it's been common knowledge for some time now that RRS would be kilted. Though the great danger is that the SCOTS will be dressed in some parody of all five former regiments. Let's see, Government tartan, red and white diced hose, black buttons on the spats, Gordon's sporran, subdued buttons and collar dogs (a' la Royal Scots officers service dress) Argyll's glengarry with a blackcock feather, black patent leather belt (in memory of the Cameronians (Scottish Rifles)) and red roses on Minden Day (as a sop to the KOSB). In TOS:- black hackle for 1SCOTS, red/white (old HLI) 2SCOTS, red 3SCOTS, blue 4SCOTS, white for 5SCOTS.

Badgers all over the world can now exhale though I think ostriches will be gulping nervously as all pipers and drummers will wear feather bonnets (so the BW can keep the red hackle.
"Busterdog" said:
This was what I was on aboot in ma ither post. BRAW eh? 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O
 
#14
Busterdog said:
..............................................
Apart from that there'll be no change!!!

:lol:
 
#15
RCSignals said:
Apparently the Royal Scots Fusiliers never really wanted them. (probably still reflected in the current attitude of the RHF) While the HLI, being stuck with tartan trews, wanted the kilt, which it regained post WW2 then lost when almagamated with RSF.
Out of interest what is the current attitude of the RHF? They seem to being vilified for something but no one is being explicit as to why.
 
#16
I've got 2 Argylls and 2 Black Watch (by cap-badge, technically they are Highland) in my training team. Their big concern is the new Hackle - particularly the Argylls who never wore one before.
 
#17
barbs said:
RCSignals said:
Apparently the Royal Scots Fusiliers never really wanted them. (probably still reflected in the current attitude of the RHF) While the HLI, being stuck with tartan trews, wanted the kilt, which it regained post WW2 then lost when almagamated with RSF.
Out of interest what is the current attitude of the RHF? They seem to being vilified for something but no one is being explicit as to why.
;) ;) Probably insisting on white socks in the new uniform :) :)
 
#18
From what I've seen of late bauchling around the local shopping centres - presumably recruiting - they should go with Burberry and have done with it.
 
#19
Gravelbelly said:
barbs said:
RCSignals said:
Apparently the Royal Scots Fusiliers never really wanted them. (probably still reflected in the current attitude of the RHF) While the HLI, being stuck with tartan trews, wanted the kilt, which it regained post WW2 then lost when almagamated with RSF.
Out of interest what is the current attitude of the RHF? They seem to being vilified for something but no one is being explicit as to why.
;) ;) Probably insisting on white socks in the new uniform :) :)
No, spats are out!!!!!
 
#20
barbs said:
Gravelbelly said:
barbs said:
RCSignals said:
Apparently the Royal Scots Fusiliers never really wanted them. (probably still reflected in the current attitude of the RHF) While the HLI, being stuck with tartan trews, wanted the kilt, which it regained post WW2 then lost when almagamated with RSF.
Out of interest what is the current attitude of the RHF? They seem to being vilified for something but no one is being explicit as to why.
;) ;) Probably insisting on white socks in the new uniform :) :)
No, spats are out!!!!!
Feck theyre smert (providing you have someone else to do them for you and you're not behind the cav at the Lord mayors show!!)
 

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