Jockanese complaints about world cup theme

#1
Apparently the Scots are up in arms about the BBC's selection of Handel's 'See the conquering hero comes' as their world cup theme.

http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=641642006

Is this just the standard bitterness beacuse they didn't qualify (again)?

Tell you what, why don't we bin this theme as it hurts their feelings so long as the Scots stop singing 'Flower of Scotland' and dressing up like Mel Gibson at internationals?
 

Ventress

LE
Moderator
#2
Flower of Scotland? Those famous words- "And sent them homward to think again" And in the words of Billy Connolly, "Aye, and they came back and kicked the $hite out of us!"

Anything that pi$$es the sweaties off cant be a bad thing!
 
#3
Simple, tell them that when they qualify they can have what ever tune they want.
 
#4
what you mean is a handful of self important jocks have taken offence, me..i think it is quite funny the BBC use a German composer for the World cup theme for England's coverage.
 
#5
Well most of the Royal family is of German descent, our language is Germanic and some of the original settlers of our fine isle (Post Roman) were of Germanic descent.
 

Sixty

ADC
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#6
Mountain/molehill.

C_C is correct, how many people even knew what the piece was written to commemorate before the whingers complained? (I'm Scottish and really couldn't care less)
 
#7
I think you are missing the point, its what the words represent which is a celebration of the ethnic cleansing, that took place after the battle of Culloden. However depending on your view point, I personally feel that our SNP MP’s are being a tad too sensitive about the tune, as at the end of the day those were very violent days where that kind of behaviour was expected. Just my viewpoint mind you.

As in the immortal words of the corries “Flower Of Scotland”

“ Those Days Are Past Now, And In The Past They Must Remain”

As far as listening to anything Billy Connolly says, well he can be a funny bloke but he dresses like a cnut, lives in England, and looks at his sh1te to see the state of his bowels. Like most entertainers, he is a 2 faced cnut who will say whatever it takes to keep an audience happy wherever he may be, and strangely enough, he is much more popular in England than in Scotland.

I’m lucky enough to remember the days of Mexico, when we did actually qualify for the competition, however I totally admit we are now pi$h at most sports except of course Curling which is a thoroughly exciting sport if you happen to have a bag full of glue in you pocket.

I’m not a bitter Scot having a pop, just trying to clear up why some may be touchie about it.

Hope you Sassenach’s do well, and go far, if not even win it.
 
#8
I am a Scot.

I can barely contain my indifference.

I presume the Scotsman, like the rest of the press, has to fill space and it's a quiet day - so some whinging second-raters whose greatest achievement has been to get elected to the glorified toon cooncil in that very expensive (and structuraly unsound) monstosity in Edinbra, together with some unknown academic with a book to plug, are given their ration of newsprint to whine about something the bastard English have done.

I sometimes think that the chips we don't manage to eat just get piled on our shoulders.

Beat it, ya numpties, ye

M_C
 
#9
Tartan fella. I didn't realise that Billy was more popular in England than Scotland. Is he a bit of an Uncle Tom figure do you think? A sort of "pet Jock" thing ? (Seriously)
 
#10
The point is that the chosen English song represents a battle that the Jacobites (note not even the Scots, seen as there were Scots on both sides including Highlanders not just the normal Low/Highlander "divide" belief). So a song about an English victory at Culloden (albeit written by a German) is wrong but a song about the Scottish victory at Bannock Burn is ok?

Yes, after Culloden there was the dark episode of the "butcher", but then the Jacobites WERE commiting treason against the Monarchy of the time, so what did they expect? To be allowed to return to their homes where they could gain strength for an almost enevitable renewed revolt? The penalties for crime in those days were extreme and cruel by todays standards, but would have been well known to all, the victors couldn't have arrested all the Jacobites (even though large numbers of prisoners were set free to allow the jails to accomodate those who were detained) and then hang, draw and quarter them? That was what was in store for them if they lived. Instead they were slaughtered on the battlefield and surrounding areas, admittedly along with innocents and children.

There is a myth of the Jacobites being issued orders to give no quarter; There is also the more substantial story of the Jacobites, under Lord George Murray, who attempted to pre-empt the battle by conducting a night attack on the Hanoverian army in their tents as they slept in camp. Specific orders for this attack were not given by Lord George because “everybody knew what he had to do”. Specifically “to cut the tent strings and pull down the poles, and where we observed a swelling or bulge in the fallen tent there to strike and push vigorously” with “sword, dirk and bayonet”. I might be wrong, but I am pretty sure this sort of conduct was also frowned upon in those days.

At Agincourt, a few centuries previous, Henry V ordered the slaughter of French prisoners to prevent a threat of the French prisoners rearming and joining a suspected attack in the rear of Henrys army. So it is hardly without precedent.

The monarchy of the day were more like mafia dons than the monarchy we have today.

Edit to add.

Remembering of course that the French were rattling their sabres a good deal at the time also, at one point (about 6 months prior to Culloden) a fleet was massing at Dunkirk. The English were very much seen as fair game due to their religion.
 
#11
the_guru said:
Tartan fella. I didn't realise that Billy was more popular in England than Scotland. Is he a bit of an Uncle Tom figure do you think? A sort of "pet Jock" thing ? (Seriously)

Oh he definitely is, Pam is a very good trainer mind you,”I would obey her too, bit of a MILF etc” I used to love Billy in the old days, and then as with most he seemed to quickly forget his roots. Then again I am not surprised after reading the book Billy.

Top book good read if you haven’t already. He still has his moments of greatness, but you only have to listen to that fcuking god awful transatlantic drool he speaks with now, to see where he is coming from now.

Of course this is my opinion. And the more popular in England thing is actually in his book. :)
 
#12
chocolate_frog said:
The point is that the chosen English song represents a battle that the Jacobites (note not even the Scots, seen as there were Scots on both sides including Highlanders not just the normal Low/Highlander "divide" belief). So a song about an English victory at Culloden (albeit written by a German) is wrong but a song about the Scottish victory at Bannock Burn is ok?
Yeah chocolate_frog your history is good, but your wee pop about “So a song about an English victory at Culloden (albeit written by a German) is wrong but a song about the Scottish victory at Bannock Burn is ok? “

Bannock Burn was a the final chapter in a War between English and Scottish Soldiers, Culloden was a Battle where many innocents “Men Woman and Children were brutally slaughtered “ But like has been said they were brutal times.. 8O
 
#13
Blyth_spirit said:
Apparently the Scots are up in arms about the BBC's selection of Handel's 'See the conquering hero comes' as their world cup theme.

http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=641642006

Is this just the standard bitterness beacuse they didn't qualify (again)?

Tell you what, why don't we bin this theme as it hurts their feelings so long as the Scots stop singing 'Flower of Scotland' and dressing up like Mel Gibson at internationals?


As stated before the tune glorifies a man who basically went through the Highlands and destroyed a way of Life at least for a while .. as a Highlander I think its offensive a bit but hey when that tune kicks in after you have been kicked out and the excuses start thats revenge enough for me.

Its not bitterness mate as any member of the Tartan Army knows we are home before the postcards even when we do qualify !!

And Flower of Scotland is not Anti English by any means as it laments the loss of Scotland and the defeat of the Army of Edward the 1st who basically invaded Scotland after the death of Our King .. but then maybe us Jocks should complain about the national Anthem and in particular the fourth verse .. " God Grant thy Marshall Wade, May Thy Victory Bring, And with a mighty rush, Rebellious Scots to Crush" .. should we ?? .. its a bit different comparing the actions of a man acting for the British Goverment who went through the Highlands of Scotland murdering and raping under the approval of the Goverment to a an Army that got its ass kicked after it tried to take over a separate country .. Does British History stop at the border for you ??

And as for dressing as Mel Gibson .. what a fcuking stupid statement that is.Highland dress is centuries old and specific to the clans. At least we have a national dress and you should be glad we do as lets face it the queen getting off her plane to be faced with a Pipe band is much more impressive than two or three dozen morris dancers with their little tassles and bells .. how fcuking embarassing would that be ?? .. but perhaps if the English had a more distinct culture you wouldnt make ridiculous claims such as in the List of things that made England Great where the following were listed ..

King James Bible .. James I of England was previously James VI of Scotland .. He was the Scottish King when he authorised the Translation.

Hadrians Wall .. Built from the English Side (by English slaves) when the Romans kicked your arse (in fairness along with most of Europe) but couldnt quite handle those nasty Scots on the other side.

Get a Grip.
 
#14
wrong choice anyway - should have been "spitfire prelude and fluge" by william walton

cant think of anything better for a world cup in germany - gentle reminder of important historical issues!
 

Sixty

ADC
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#15
Was also a battle between the British Army and the Jacobites mate.

Young Choccy_Frog is wrong about the 'English' victory but I reiterate my point that it matters not a jot. The army was called out to deal with an insurrection.
 
#16
It is a stramash in a tassie (oor word for tea cup) but if I ever really feel that jock itch I just count the number of jocks in the Cabinet, who rule the Scottish empire, including Tone I'm afraid whose Grannie (who you couldny throw affa bus) was born in the dear green place and he went to Fettes (which he doesn't mention much) and Alastair Darling who I was head of dorm of at Lore**o, Oh and don't forget Des Browne the new Def Sec ... whoever the hell he is ....
 
#18
Whew .. now I have had my rant who cares what theme tune is played. I am just looking forward to the excuses and infighting after Englands Exit.

That always makes me smile .. :lol:
 
#19
Pre mai noctiii!!!

I think the Mel Gibson dress bit is in reference to the loons who paint their faces blue, something which the actors in Braveheart did but the real Highland soldiers of the time portrayed didn't, rather than the highland dress. It was more likely for the Picts to paint themselves thus several centuries previous to Wallace. See Arthur or whatever it was called with Kiera Knightly.

Other drivel from Braveheart includes that Scottish nobles were hung in a barn by some sort of treachery (invited to a barn, walking through a narrow door, a rope was dropped around them, and they were hung) when in actual fact they were hung by a sort of circuit court.

And we wont even go over the alledged (in braveheart) relations between Wallace/Gibson and a French Princess who was under 10 and still in France at the time of the alledged meeting. She only married after Edward II became King (so was never Princess of Wales). Or the fact that the Irish didn't change sides during a battle, the Welsh didn't either even though they were treated worse than the Irish and considered more untrustworthy than the Irish, the Welsh were essentially to be used as throwaway soldiers, caught between Wallaces forces and the Kings in battle, a little like the Romans used their (untrustworty) Auxillery forces also sandwiched between the enemy and the loyal legions.

Pre mai nocti has never been recorded in England or Scotland, and there is some doubt as to whether it has actually occured anywhere in Europe. Although it has occured elsewhere, Mao Zedong was alledgedly a practicer of deflowering virgins (but not on their wedding night) and in some Pacific Islands it was a religioius practice to appease the Gods.

And, I may be wrong but, Wallace didn't support the Bruces claim to the Scottish thrown, favouring a claim by the Balliol line (who also had French connections as many nobles would have in those days). Who set up the Oxford University of the name in the early mid to late 1200s.

PS check out this pr1ck

62 out of 93 people found the following comment useful:-
Best movie ever, 13 September 2005

Author: rutan07 from United States


Most on this site pick the Godfather, or the Shawshank Redemption, but this is it, this is the best film ever made. People will complain, will argue that I am wrong, but I will say it again...Braveheart is as close to perfection as a movie can be. The acting is superb, the man who played Lonshanks, the actor who portrayed Robert the Bruce, both should have been nominated for Oscars due to their powerful rendering of evil and a man who is saved from losing his humanity (from becoming evil) by meeting William Wallace. And let us not forget the direction, the cinematography. Braveheart is glorious, beautiful to look at. The slow motion pictures of horses preparing to charge armed combatants, the entire landscape of Scotland that Mel Gibson captures with the camera. Braveheart is artwork, it is as good as any picture. That the film is number 93 on the list of the top 250 movies ever is a shame. Yes there is violence in this film but that violence does serve a point...that freedom isn't free and sometimes it takes death, gruesome and horrible, to let ones people taste what it is like to be free. Braveheart is a great movie and it deserves to at least be in the top ten of IMDb's list of greatest films.
Freedom isn't free, no there's a hefty f*cking fee....

PS. By English victory I refer to the King, not the forces involved.
 

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