Jobs in civvy street for ex forces

Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by Bicster, Jul 7, 2012.

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  1. I was disgusted today to say the least listening to the radio in my cab. There was a piece titled 'would you employ somebody who has served in the forces'. Turns out a hell of a lot of companies are turning their noses up at employing ex forces people. Boiled my piss that did as when ever ive been for an interview ive been proud to have shown my service record and that I am a well disciplined, well trained and a hard working individual. Im doing ok driving for a living but hate to think that somebody who is coming out, qualified in a trade is put in a pigeon hole titled ex forces not to be looked at. You would have thought the ex forces person would have stood out as a very potential candidate for the job.
     
  2. There are a hell of a lot of companies that prefer employ ex forces personnel as well. Some companies prefer to employ people with experience, some prefer to employ people with loads of qualifications but no experience. Its called life, get used to it.
     
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  3. the_boy_syrup

    the_boy_syrup LE Book Reviewer

    Ex Forces counts for nothing in the big bad world.
    One problem is that alot of the forces kit is old.
    You may be a super techie but your c.v of how you kept Scimiters running or VC10's in the air might not help if the firm is looking for a whizz kid who can plug a lap top into your Scanias dashboard diagnose whats wrong and fix it.
    I suufered initially becuase I'd never used a tachograph or drivers hours.
    There's an awful lot of kids out there with a lot of qualifications
    There was a thread on here a while back about a G.C. Holder who left the mob and could only get a job in a caLl centre.
    Te outrage bus lapped Lewis Hamilton
    I've got kids with degrees answering phones here just trying to get a foot in the door.
    I've a lad with a business degree on the agency scooping £7.50 an hour and he's grateful for that and the chance it might give him.

    It's always been so how many Lancaster pilots and aircrew ended up driving buses or working in factories
    Sadly just because you brassed up a load of flip flops for Her Majesty dosen't automatically guarentee anything outside the forces.

    We seem to have got into a mindset that becuse you've a couple of tours in when you leave you must get a nice new house, and a job
    Think yourself lucky that at the moment there is respect for the Armed Forces.
    10 years ago once you handed in your I.D. card they couldn't give a **** if you walked off camp and bedded down under the nearest railway arch.
     
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  4. My 2 cents: The U.S. in general seems to have a culture of offering slightly better prospects for ex-soldiers. Quite a few firms I came across seemed to value the skill sets of a soldier. Again, this is just an opinion based on my admittedly limited exposure to UK firms. Could be wrong.
     
  5. davidflies

    davidflies War Hero Book Reviewer

    If we had the wherewithal - but thanks to the present financial climate we don't - I would always take ex-forces people in preference to smarty pants graduates who don't want to work, just play computer games and collect the cheque! At least I know the work will get done by them.
     
  6. Bowmore_Assassin

    Bowmore_Assassin LE Moderator Book Reviewer

    Sad but true. I am on the redundancy path (volunteer). I started researching civdiv in Feb this year.

    Companies are generally not interested in what or who you were in the Army (to many of them it's irrelevant as to whether you were a SNCO, RSM, Major, CO...however ex bosses of mine who reached the heady heights have told me civdiv does perk up a bit when you say Brigadier or above); in general they want to know what you were responsible for, how you added value, how you saved money, how you improved 'business' and so on.

    Very few recognise or understand what we know; every 2 to 3 years we change job, promoted or not and thus we learn fast, we have a culture of continuous education etc, etc, discipline, loyalty, honour (foreign concept to most civilians unless they have worn a uniform and, of course, politicians) ..which means we are highly adaptable because if we don't square our shit away quickly the man or woman above will sack us.




    Sent from my iPhone using ARRSE app
     
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  7. oldbaldy

    oldbaldy LE Moderator Good Egg (charities)
    1. Battlefield Tours

    The ignorance of some employers is astounding.
    At interview I was asked how I would cope managing females!
    I was offered that job but turned them down.
     
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  8. Bowmore_Assassin

    Bowmore_Assassin LE Moderator Book Reviewer

    You are not wrong redshift. There is a very active process amongst many large, medium and small US civilian companies who support the concept and active employment of veterans with some of them actively looking to employ those who have survived catastrophic injuries.

    Having been jobhunting on a lot of US company websites, all the big and good companies have excellent careers pages and many of them openly state, or even have a specific web page which targets employment if ex-US military.

    Amazon.com is a good example but there are many.


    Sent from my iPhone using ARRSE app
     
  9. Speaking for the sector I work in (Financial Services, boo hiss :) it is inevitable that you get a few maveric pople who have a dislike for this type of person or that. In general though, my experience and opinion is that companies do not have an issue with ex Armed forces (we have quite a good showing in my dept, including me).

    What they will look for is evidence that you are the right person for the job. Managers know that it would be stupid to turn away the best candidate on some prejudice, if nothing else this would result in getting less than the best job done so making lives even more difficult for themselves.

    Look at advice from recruiters re CV, cover letter, interview technique etc.

    Also, just because you have been working with Army kit does not necessarily mean you will be considered as incapable of working with civvie kit so look for what you can align your skills to and make the case for that. Convince the hirer that you are the one and (in my world anyway) and you will get the job.
     
  10. Bowmore_Assassin

    Bowmore_Assassin LE Moderator Book Reviewer

    Good for you. Did you tell them why ? What a bunch of half-wits.


    Sent from my iPhone using ARRSE app
     
  11. That was a very stupid question to be asked. I don't think I know anyone who would ask anything as idiotic as that, I am not sure if it borders on unlawful anyway. Asking anything gender specific these days is a dangerous area to go for an interviewer.

    You did yourself a favour walking away. Hope you found something better than that.
     
  12. Wordsmith

    Wordsmith LE Book Reviewer

    Companies live in a dog eat dog world. Every company is trying to improve its productivity, quality, costs, etc - and if your competitor does it faster than you, they get the nice shiny new contract and your company start thinking about who to lay off. If you regard civilian companies as being in a perpetual arms race with their competitors, you'll get the idea.

    So any manager who's recruiting does ask those questions: "who you were responsible for, how you saved money", etc., because they're trying to work out if those skills can be used within their own company. Most civilian managers will not know (nor care) what you did in the military. Their sole interest is whether you have a skill set that will help them in that arms race in the future.

    As the interviewee, the onus is on you to show the person interviewing you how you can contribute to their company's future. Managers are busy people; they're not going to waste their time finding out about the military just so they can give you a fairer interview. Instead, you must find out about their firm so you can help them make the mental leap from the skills to picked up in their military to how those skills would help them move their firm forward.

    -- Don't say: "I maintained Warrior armoured vehicles, so I understand about heavy duty power trains". Instead say "I maintained vehicles in the field; often with limited equipment. That experience would help you get a lorry up and running quickly if it breaks down while on the road".

    -- Don't say: "I worked hard at keeping the 5th Foot and Mouth supplied in the field". Instead say "My experience in logistics will let me make a big contribution to getting your lorries away from the distribution centre on time and meet your delivery targets".

    Instead of telling the interviewer about what you did in the army, you are now creating a picture in their mind about what you could do for them in the future. It's not up to the person interviewing you to do that - its up to you. You must go to that interview fully prepared with examples of how you can contribute to that company in the future. Then you're making the interviewer's task easy - because now they're starting to picture you in that job and helping them hit their targets.

    If you can't create that picture in the interviewers mind, the job will go to someone else.

    Wordsmith
     
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  13. the_boy_syrup

    the_boy_syrup LE Book Reviewer

    People probably (belive it or not) think you've never ran across females in the forces.
    Of course you do get the blokes who can't let go
    I work with one andf if you knocked off lamp and sandbag time eand evry other sentace starting with "one eye was in..."
    He probably does about 5 minutes a day not including fag breaks "you know one eye was in Germany these fags cost **** all"
    Had a lad knock back £34k becuase he didn't want shift and there wasn't enough perks and cash compared to what he was used to.
    Sadly we don't have a mess with toast and papers we have a canteen and bring your own.

    My tip
    Research jobs most jobs will ask for an example of something
    Be prepared to bluff slightly tell how you led your section of men under extreme circumstances
    Don't say youi beat Pte Smith half to death and caled him a poof for failling a CFT.
    Don't tell the woman from HR how you smudge and dinger made the NAAFI manageress airtight after the bop it might make her moist but wasn't the example of teamwork she was looking for.

    Oh and be prepared to start again or at the bottom.
    Most companies these days it's about geting a foot in the door
    Start at the botom and shine you'll soon move along.
    Show them you want the job
    When I started here I was agency.
    Everyone new who was replacing the old guys and when
    I was at the bottom of the list
    I was approached to shunt at one of our other depots.
    Everyone else had truned it down
    I accepted because it never occoured to me to say no
    I used to leave hom at 04:00 drive to eh site shunt 06:00 - 18:00 get home at 20:00 fall asleep
    6 days a week for 6 months (fuel alowence and money was good)
    Turned out teh oher depot was almos all ex Squaddies
    Once the jobs came up I was suddenly the man thanks to some glowing references.
    Being ex forces stood me in good stead but you sometimes have to work on it.
     
  14. Pretty much everyone I knew in the forces who I kept in contact with or bumped into on the outside has always managed to get a job. Even periods of unemployment were only ever brief. Of course when I left it was during the old dot.com era, and jobs in my field were ten a penny. I don't know of any firms who have a downer on ex-forces working for them. But if you go for a job as bog cleaner at the East London Mosque and editor of An Phoblacht, you may face a bit of animosity when they read your CV.

    There was a case last year of a graphics or IT firm in Taunton who slagged off ex-forces, and got a shitload of stick for it.
     
  15. Must say, I just got a job and basically walked into it. I was the only ex-forces, the only non-grad and had at least 20 years on the other candidates.

    Since found out that I was offered the position based on my military CV, my military references, my military testimonial and my confidence at interview built on 22 years in the military... Do you see a trend there?