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Japan -still denying

Should Japan do more to acknowledge its WW2 guilt?

  • No-lets just move on FFS

    Votes: 21 28.8%
  • Yes-starting with the kids

    Votes: 44 60.3%
  • What wartime guilt?

    Votes: 1 1.4%
  • Bought aToyota once-marvellous! Pass the Sake

    Votes: 7 9.6%

  • Total voters
    73
  • Poll closed .
Tried and tried...thread title amended but poll question resisting stubbornly...got a good line to Div HQ ?
020 8992 4965 works for me. Its GCO's mums phone
 
Just watched the movie "little boy" a bit mawkish but the message was clear.
 

AlienFTM

MIA
Book Reviewer
Tried and tried...thread title amended but poll question resisting stubbornly...got a good line to Div HQ ?
If you go page to the forum page, it lists the moderators of each forum. For this forum:
Either click one or all of them and PM.

Otherwise, enter the name(s) of moderator(s) preceded by @, thus
@Bad CO , @Bowmore_Assassin , @Good CO , @Guns , @cpunk , @oldbaldy , (note to mods, Mr Happy doesn't seem to work)
and he (they) will be nnotified of this post.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
I'm not sure we should even berate them for denying their crimes, let's in turn deny we dropped the A Bombs and pass it off as an act of God or similar!
 
'City of Life and Death' - Not an easy watch but ought to be compulsory viewing at times like these.
Local Library had quite a subtle display of topical books, 'Hellships' 'Tokyo Inferno' etc. Glad someone's prepared to feed peoples curiousity.

I have a copy of City of Life and Death on DVD. Quite a revelation when I looked up the real historical background.
 
I worked in Nanjing for six months and visited the local Nanking atrocities museum, grim, very grim; the photos and paintings left little to the imagination. One exhibit that stood out was a copy of a Japanese newspaper showing an article (complete with photos) covering a beheading contest between two Jap officers, 1st to a hundred! After that the swords were too blunt. The city wall is still there in parts, famous for photos of Jap soldiers with arms raised shouting banzai. Plus they pushed thousands of unarmed captured nationalist solders off, that and the mass burying of people alive to save on bullets. They also used those old fashioned guillotines we used at school for cutting stacks of paper. There are photos of Jap soldiers holding their victims down as one of their comrades pulls down on the guillotine arm, puts ISIS to shame.

No Love lost between the Chinese and Japs. A mainlander once told me Japan was populated after a Chinese princess was shipwrecked on the main island and then the raped repeatedly by monkeys. I wonder if that's where the Monkey character came from in the Water Margin?

The Koreans are also storing up revenge points, the Japs treated them like shite during their occupation of Korea. Watch any Korean movie and there's always a Jap getting a kicking.

The Japanese are still claiming it didn't happen:

Denials of the massacre by public officials in Japan
In May 1994, Justice Minister Shigeto Nagano called the Nanjing Massacre a "fabrication".[112]
On June 19, 2007, a group of around 100
Liberal Democratic Party (LDP) lawmakers again denounced the Nanjing Massacre as a fabrication, arguing that there was no evidence to prove the allegations of mass killings by Japanese soldiers. They accused Beijing of using the alleged incident as a "political advertisement".[113] [114]
On February 20, 2012,
Takashi Kawamura, mayor of Nagoya, told a visiting delegation from Nanjing that the massacre "probably never happened". Two days later he defended his remarks, saying, "Even since I was a national Diet representative, I have said [repeatedly] there was no [Nanjing] massacre that resulted in murders of several hundred thousands of people."[115][116] On April 1, 2013, Kawamura said his position remained unchanged when the issue came up during an election debate.[117]
On February 24, 2012,
Tokyo governor Shintaro Ishihara said that he also believes that the Nanjing massacre never happened. He reportedly claims it would have been impossible to kill so many people in such a short period of time.[118] He believes the actual death toll was 10,000.[119]
On February 3, 2014, Naoki Hyakuta, a member of the board of governors of Japan's public broadcasting company,
NHK, was quoted as saying the massacre never occurred.[120] He said that there were isolated incidents of brutality but no widespread atrocity, and criticized the Tokyo Trials figure of 200,000.[121]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre
 

Guns

ADC
Moderator
Book Reviewer
Poll amended
 
I have a copy of City of Life and Death on DVD. Quite a revelation when I looked up the real historical background.
Not exactly a first date movie but one which, although given a certain patriotic flourish, does stick to documented events and timelines.

One scene in particular sticks to mind, the Japanese victory parade which was described by a number of independent witnesses.

 

Goatman

ADC
Book Reviewer
Poll amended

ta @Guns -top hand take a make & mend

Perhaps President Abe should make a start by showing the 1944 US Army agitprop film


'Why we fight' pt6

(wonder how many Japanese students have ever heard of the Tanaka Memorial -even though its authenticity is widely debated)

Incidentally for movie buffs -the US Army propaganda film was directed by one Frank Capra
 
Last edited:
Incidentally for movie buffs -the US Army propaganda film was directed by one Frank Capra
Strangely, he opted for 'March of the Volunteers' rather than 'Sanmin Zhuyi' as the opening theme.
 
wonder how many Japanese students have ever heard of the Tanaka Memorial -even though its authenticity is widely debated
One thing gets regularly overlooked in the bunfight over the Tanaka Memorandum's authenticity - the sentiments expressed in it were widely expressed in speech and writing by the Japanese ruling elites throughout the period from about 1885-1930.
 

Goatman

ADC
Book Reviewer
The Japanese are still claiming it didn't happen:

yeah-first post link for the benefit of the hard of seeing:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-33754932
dateline 03 Aug 2015

Former chief of Japan's air forces, Toshio Tamogami, says that stories of atrocities such as the Nanjing massacre in the 1930s are "lies and fabrication"I
One of the most eloquent voices of revisionism is Toshio Tamogami.

Mr Tamogami is well-educated, knowledgeable and, when I meet him, exquisitely polite. The former chief of staff of Japan's air force believes in a version of Japanese history that is deeply at odds with much of the rest of the world.

But it is increasingly popular among young Japanese, tired of being told they must keep apologising to China and Korea.


Last year Mr Tamogami ran for governor of Tokyo. He came fourth, with 600,000 votes. Most strikingly, among young voters aged 20 to 30 he got nearly a quarter of the votes cast.

"As a defeated nation we only teach the history forced on us by the victors," he says. "To be an independent nation again we must move away from the history imposed on us. We should take back our true history that we can be proud of."

In this "true" history of the 20th Century that Mr Tamogami talks of, Japan was not the aggressor, but the liberator. Japanese soldiers fought valiantly to expel the hated white imperialists who had subjugated Asian peoples for 200 years.

It is a proud history, where Japan, alone in Asia, was capable of taking on and defeating the European oppressors. It is also a version of history that has no room for the Japanese committing atrocities against fellow Asians.


Mr Tamogami believes that Japan did not invade the Korean Peninsula, but rather "invested in Korea and also in Taiwan and Manchuria".

I ask him about the invasion of China in 1937 and the massacre of civilians in the capital Nanjing. Surely that was naked aggression?

"I can declare that there was no Nanjing Massacre," he says, claiming there were "no eyewitnesses" of Japanese soldiers slaughtering Chinese civilians.
 
@LeoRoverman - Belated apology - hit the ******** icons without realising it while scrolling on an iPad, and have only just spotted that I'd 'braincelled' post #30. Apologies.

<chunters about the ***** icons and how easy it is to ND with them on an iPad>.
 

Petardier

War Hero
Its also worth remembering that in 1930s Japan there were two schools of expansion, the 'Go North' school run by the army and the 'Go South' school by the navy. The army had a go at Khalgin Gol, should have worked fine, superior Japanese force and Sov forces 600 km from their railhead. Unfortunately for the Japs the Sov side was run by a chap called Georgi Zhukov, an arrse kicking ensured, end of go north, navy in the driving seat.

Then in 1945 Stalin true to his word launched a massive force of 3 Fronts (full of blokes who'd spent a few years practising on Germans) against the Japs in China, mega arse kicking ensued. What really scared the Japs was the prospect of a Sov invasion of Japan starting in the North.
 
An Australian mate of mine just came back from Japan where he stayed for a few months. He told me at breakfast this morning that some japanese parents are teaching their kids that Japan won the war.
 
D

Deleted 4886

Guest
An Australian mate of mine just came back from Japan where he stayed for a few months. He told me at breakfast this morning that some japanese parents are teaching their kids that Japan won the war.
Looking at their economy some may say they did! (Can't give myself an 'old' for that :)).
 
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