Japan and yet another maritime dispute.

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by smartascarrots, Jul 15, 2011.

Welcome to the Army Rumour Service, ARRSE

The UK's largest and busiest UNofficial military website.

The heart of the site is the forum area, including:

  1. BBC Link.

    Wonderful. The nation with: the second most powerful navy in the Pacific; an economic crisis; a government desperate to distract attention from its own woeful performance of late; and an increasing domestic pressure to do away with pacifist constitutional clauses has decided to lay claim to islands governed by yet another neighbour.

    Maybe if we hadn't let them keep any of the spoils from last time, they'd be less insistent. I bet the Okinawans/Ryukyuans wouldn't be crying in their saki at regaining their independence either.
  2. The mistake, in my opinion, was allowing Japan to keep the constitutional apparel in place after having signed the surrender order. This allowed a social delusion - however ill-guided - to develop that Japan wasn't 'defeated' in the same way Germany was.

    Japan is to a large extent a de facto American colony, so I expect if the Americans say "no game" to this latest bluster it'll all die down pretty soon.
  3. Yes but look at the SCS a whole. These reports are a by-play on what is really going on,
  4. I'm not sure what that bit's called but it's not any of the China Seas.

    I'm not sanguine that the US has as much influence of the Japanese as all that, either. They're long-standing allies of the Koreans too, yet I wouldn't place any wagers that they'd rush to evict a Japanese invasion - remember the 'Haig Shuttle', anyone?
  5. A few more buckets of sunshine will solve that.
  6. I can see that the only way out is for the Japs to invade and claim the islands by force...
  7. Really? The Japanese constitution was US-authored. The consequence of military failure in Japan was the opening up of the economy to American imports (Japanese culture has become heavily infused with American cultural output - unthinkable before the war). The Americans still technically have 11 military bases on Japanese soil, in which they have absolute jurisdiction over the activities of residents (i.e. immunity from Japanese laws and customs). The Japanese still operate under a US military (nuclear) protectorate.

    Under any historical definition that is a colony with notional sovereignty granted in order to quel indigineous consternation.

    Much of this also applies to the UK/much of Western Europe too.
  8. I misread that title as Marmite.I feel stupid now.
  9. "South Korea has protested to Japan after Tokyo instructed its diplomats to boycott Korean Air in a territorial dispute between the two countries."

    I had to look these up. Dokdo in Korean and Takeshima in Japanese, also named after a French whaler in 1849.

    "The Liancourt Rocks consist of two main islets and 35 smaller rocks. The total surface area of the islets is 0.18745 square kilometres (46.32 acres), with the highest elevation of 169 metres (554 ft) found at an unnamed location on the west islet. Two Korean citizens,an octopus fisherman and his wife are permanent residents on the islets. A small Korean police detachment, administrative personnel, and lighthouse staff are stationed in non-permanent supporting positions on the islets."

    Apparently there may be extensive gas fields under this location. Probably a coincidence.

  10. It might be arguable de facto but nonetheless Japan is de jure independent and still acts like it on a good many occasions. Sovereign base areas do not a colony make or Cyprus would be a good deal less obstreperous to British intent.

    Japan started out on a path of physical expansion in the late 1800s and it was allowed to keep its earliest conquests in the post-WW2 settlement. I think that may turn out to have been a mistake.
  11. Whilst there is a very strong veneer of Western culture over Japan, I'd say the Japanese themselves remain as Japanese as their fathers, and their fathers before them. The mere fact that they now wear sober suits and use words like "raifuru" and "hoteru" doesn't make them subservient, Americanised drones. The overwhelming impression I get, from Japanese and from Westerners who've been there, is that Japan remains very much unique; beneath the Westernised surface (which, let's not forget, began to evolve during the 1860s in response to the crushing power of Western powers in Asia) they remain the Japanese of old. The samurai were stripped of their influence during the 17th Century, their will and strength bent towards sports and arts, yet their codes and their ideas survived more than two hundred years, to form the basis for the idealised notions of bushido first enumerated in the early 20th Century. The Imperial Navy and Army modeled themselves on their British and French (and later German) counterparts, but still did things in a very Japanese way indeed.

    The Japanese have a long history of quietly absorbing bits from other cultures, however foreign, and simply welding them onto their existing cultural mores and methods. Methinks that, if their way of doing things has survived about four millennia by this method, a few yanks running around isn't going to change anything just yet. They wear suits, they drink Fanta and they watch baseball; they also run Love Hotels, read bizarre (and occasionally disturbing) Manga on the tube, and still on occasion observe the niceties of the tea ceremony. Don't underestimate their obstinate, if quiet, independence, and don't overestimate how much they are like us.

    Or so I reckons anyways, like. 'course, I'm probably talking ARRSE again.

    Regarding this, I suspect that this is just poor old Kan trying to make something go well for a moment. I also suspect that they're not going to go trying annex bits of the Pacific again. If I were them, I'd wait until the Chinese and yanks had buggered themselves fighting, first, and then do it!
  12. That was my first instinct too, TBH. What I thought interesting about it is that it's a sign of just how desperate the sitting government is for good news, if they're going to pick a fight with one of their main competitors in the high-tech industries. It was Korean and Taiwanese semiconductor companies that picked up the production slack left after the earthquake/tsunami and a lot of Japanese companies farmed out production to these countries. There must be something pretty dramatic happening in Japanese domestic politics to risk ruining relations this way.
  13. seaweed

    seaweed LE Book Reviewer

  14. Trans-sane

    Trans-sane LE Book Reviewer

    My bold. I suspect not... The visible surface of "Westernised" Japan from my reading of the modern society is a relatively small bunch of frankly loud, brash and irritating relative youngsters. Such groups have existed in Japan probably since forever BUT they haven't been so visible since the Ashikaga Shogunate (sp? aint got the reference sources to hand at present) started to unravel leading to the Age of War. Even then they tended to be relatively small and weak bands of Ronin, bandits and pirates. The central Japanese culture of seeking perfection in what they do remains as healthy as ever. Frankly most Western Europeans/Americans have very little understanding of the Japanese psyche (and the vice-versa was equally true in the 30s and 40s and is probably just as true now). I've been something of a (narrowly focuses) Nipponophile for six or seven years and all I've learned is that they THINK radically different to Western norms. Although I confess I much prefer their way ;).