Japan’s new rifle.

In what way do you find it interesting? There is no evidence to show that bullpup is better than conventional layout.
Surely the main reason for having a Bullpup layout is that you can have a longer barrel, without increasing the Rifle length beyond what is manageable. The main disadvantage I'm aware of is the use of a trigger bar, which can lead to a weird trigger pull (as per the SA80 with its seemingly 900 trigger pressures). I'm also pretty sure that the use of stamped steel in the SA80 doesn't help with the inconsistent 'rickety' feel that they get, particularly as they age.
 

TamH70

MIA
Surely the main reason for having a Bullpup layout is that you can have a longer barrel, without increasing the Rifle length beyond what is manageable. The main disadvantage I'm aware of is the use of a trigger bar, which can lead to a weird trigger pull (as per the SA80 with its seemingly 900 trigger pressures). I'm also pretty sure that the use of stamped steel in the SA80 doesn't help with the inconsistent 'rickety' feel that they get, particularly as they age.
The only bullpup I'd ever consider would be the Austeyr F88. If it can survive in service with the Ockers, it must be pretty damned good. And even in its original Mark 1 AUG form, the thing was ludicrously strong.
 
The only bullpup I'd ever consider would be the Austeyr F88. If it can survive in service with the Ockers, it must be pretty damned good. And even in its original Mark 1 AUG form, the thing was ludicrously strong.
The Kiwis ditched it though, a year or two back.
 

TamH70

MIA
The Kiwis ditched it though, a year or two back.
Yep. They went to a 5.56mm NATO version of the LMT gun we use in 7.62mm NATO as some kind of sniper support weapon thingy if I recall correctly without going to Bing or Google. I'm pretty sure that their rifles were shagged out and needed replacing with something - and they hadn't gone through the same process of reinventing the wheel like what we've done with our SA80s which are pretty much like Trigger's Broom now.
 
Yep. They went to a 5.56mm NATO version of the LMT gun we use in 7.62mm NATO as some kind of sniper support weapon thingy if I recall correctly without going to Bing or Google. I'm pretty sure that their rifles were shagged out and needed replacing with something - and they hadn't gone through the same process of reinventing the wheel like what we've done with our SA80s which are pretty much like Trigger's Broom now.
The same American company I think. Lewis or LMT- something like that.
 

Fang_Farrier

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
The question was raised and answered a couple of months ago in this thread. The "new" rifle is basically just an update to the existing design, so there's no major changes in that respect.
Saves having to reinvent the drill book
 
In what way do you find it interesting? There is no evidence to show that bullpup is better than conventional layout.
I'm no great fan of bullpups, but there have been enough of them around, Steyr, Famas, SA80 :( and Tavor.
Somebody must be convinced that they have something to offer that more conventional designs don't, eg length.
 

gafkiwi

War Hero
Yep. They went to a 5.56mm NATO version of the LMT gun we use in 7.62mm NATO as some kind of sniper support weapon thingy if I recall correctly without going to Bing or Google. I'm pretty sure that their rifles were shagged out and needed replacing with something - and they hadn't gone through the same process of reinventing the wheel like what we've done with our SA80s which are pretty much like Trigger's Broom now.
Around 2007 NZDF decided the Steyrs were going to be upgraded to give them another 10-15 years of service life with a replacement planned sometime in the 2020's. The upgrade was about trying to bring them in line with other contemporary rifles. Key weak points was the fixed 1.5 optic sight most rifles had and the ability to mount the required ancillary kit. Wear and tear wise the rifle was pretty good.
The only people to bid on the upgrade was THALES from Aussy with an upgrade to the EF-88/F-90 spec they are currently marketing. Apparently they knew they were the only ones to bid and so wanted more to upgrade the Steyr than it would cost to replace it with anything else off the open market. With a replacement due in the not too distant future, NZDF decided to fob off an upgrade and go to an open competition for a replacement instead. Strangely enough THALES then chose not to put a bid in now that it was an open competition incl H&K, SIG, FN, and LMT.
The MARS-L from LMT is doing very well in service with a lot less issues than when the Steyr was adopted. General opinion is its a lot better being lighter and able to be adjusted or fitted to the soldier rather than the reverse with the Steyr and accuracy and reliability are better.
 

gafkiwi

War Hero
You'd think, with their short stubby arms, they'd have gone for a compact bullpup design.
Funnily enough a Bullpup has a fixed length of pull generally aimed at an average length for all users as well as less real estate for non-master hand support. Most modern conventional rifles have adjustable stocks and fore ends/hand guards that will better cater for greater variety of soldier sizes.
 

Grumblegrunt

LE
Book Reviewer
As a left hander, I'm not a fan of bullpups other than the Steyr AUG which has a conversion kit and can easily be swapped.

The obvious advantage is a shorter overall length for the same length of barrel, and possibly a small reduction in weight.
did you ever use the FAMAS?

a bit wierd with the plastic outer and harsh on shell casings requiring steel ammo but I preferred it over the SA80 any day of the week being sinister myself.

the AUG is something we should have bought instead of SA80 IMO, the govt could have saved a fortune and turned RSAF enfield into houses themselves and made even more of a profit instead of letting BAE do it for them.
 

endure

GCM
I understand the background but that still doesn't sound a particularly impressive name for a ship.

A bit like an HMS Dave or HMS Gary.
Better than HMS Delboy...
 

Grumblegrunt

LE
Book Reviewer
HMS Cameron would no doubt have a heli called dave.
 
Around 2007 NZDF decided the Steyrs were going to be upgraded to give them another 10-15 years of service life with a replacement planned sometime in the 2020's. The upgrade was about trying to bring them in line with other contemporary rifles. Key weak points was the fixed 1.5 optic sight most rifles had and the ability to mount the required ancillary kit. Wear and tear wise the rifle was pretty good.
The only people to bid on the upgrade was THALES from Aussy with an upgrade to the EF-88/F-90 spec they are currently marketing. Apparently they knew they were the only ones to bid and so wanted more to upgrade the Steyr than it would cost to replace it with anything else off the open market. With a replacement due in the not too distant future, NZDF decided to fob off an upgrade and go to an open competition for a replacement instead. Strangely enough THALES then chose not to put a bid in now that it was an open competition incl H&K, SIG, FN, and LMT.
The MARS-L from LMT is doing very well in service with a lot less issues than when the Steyr was adopted. General opinion is its a lot better being lighter and able to be adjusted or fitted to the soldier rather than the reverse with the Steyr and accuracy and reliability are better.
Considering how much the the new Australian EF-88 apparently changed compared to the original version, to what extent would the "upgrade" from Thales for New Zealand have simply amounted to a whole new rifle anyway? They claim to have changed a lot of the innards of the rifle, not just stuck some mounting rails on the outside.

 

TamH70

MIA
Fixed lighter barrel?

/raised eyebrows.
The original barrel of the AUG was quick change. Supposedly this was to provide modularity by allowing the user to change to different barrel lengths easily for different tasks. So you could change the long rifle barrel for a short carbine barrel in seconds.

This was a popular idea at one time, and the FN SCAR is another example of this sort of modularity.

However, it wasn't something that people actually did much in practice, so it was pointless for most users.

With any sort of modular system you generally pay a penalty in terms of weight, cost, and complexity. The new version dropped the quick change feature and went with a fixed barrel.
 
The L85 is a bastardised bullpup conversion of the AR-18
 
I think it was because we never had a historic Admiral called Dave or Gary. I could be wrong though.
I prefer the strong names like HMS Tiger, Valiant, Indefatigable, Warspite, Pansy, Spanker and Gay Viking.

We could have an HMS Ronnie Pickering, that'll send a message of fear and dread to those commie barstewards.
 

gafkiwi

War Hero
Considering how much the the new Australian EF-88 apparently changed compared to the original version, to what extent would the "upgrade" from Thales for New Zealand have simply amounted to a whole new rifle anyway? They claim to have changed a lot of the innards of the rifle, not just stuck some mounting rails on the outside.

Vast majority of what they did was external things to catch up with contemporary service rifles, internally just minor improvements and generally addressing know weaknesses or points. One of their key targets overall was to bring the weight down to allow for the weight of additions and modifications. The QD barrel was never going to carry over as it was largely pointless and its only real use apart from cleaning was the Australian requirement to remove barrels to show clear during clearances.
 

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