jail not the answer for teen knife users...

#3
How many decades have we been putting up with these morons trying to rehabilitate offenders with free hollidays and cushy prisons rather than focus on punishment.
 
#4
The article wasn't saying don't gaol murderers or those who carry out knife crime. What it was saying is that there are a lot of measures that could and should be put in place to prevent knife crime occurring. He's saying don't just treat the symptoms, treat the cause.
It's very easy to stick people in gaol, perhaps it would be a good idea to spend some money on trying to prevent someone offending in the first place. After all, once they're gaoled it generally means that someone is dead and anything we can do to prevent that should be done.
 

BiscuitsAB

LE
Moderator
#5
Markintime said:
The article wasn't saying don't gaol murderers or those who carry out knife crime. What it was saying is that there are a lot of measures that could and should be put in place to prevent knife crime occurring. He's saying don't just treat the symptoms, treat the cause.
It's very easy to stick people in gaol, perhaps it would be a good idea to spend some money on trying to prevent someone offending in the first place. After all, once they're gaoled it generally means that someone is dead and anything we can do to prevent that should be done.
Bugger it. Wot he said ^
 
#6
So gaol is not the asnwer for teen knife users.

I think that it depends on what the question is. If the question is, What shall we do with viscious thugs who carry knife and it has been shown that they are prepared to use them and kill others? then gaol seems the perfect answer to prevent recidivism.
And if gaol is not suitable for teens, the inference is that on reaching twenty then it is.
 

maguire

LE
Book Reviewer
#7
as to where the 'softly, softly' approach appears to be getting us, I would refer you to the article linked to in this thread - http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/Forums/viewtopic/p=2243050.html - but of course we musnt infringe the poor dears human rights must we?

the longer the rights of the scumbag are given priority over the rights of the majority of law abiding people in this country, we are heading for very bad times indeed.
 
#9
As someone who's seen initiatives like the Cadets and Boy Scouts turn things around for kids, perhaps the suggestion that such organisations should be engaged to stop kids from getting into this spiral of negative influence, is not bad at all.

Yes, those who go and murder (even if "I didn't mean to kill him'') should have the full weight of the law come down on them, but those in danger of doing so (but not having done it yet) should preferably be taught/engaged to channel their frustration, anger, fear, etc into something a lot more positive.

Remember that many kids are stuck with stigmas of various kinds that they often do not deserve, and they are never given the chance to prove that they are not deserving of such a title.

That said though, I agree with one of the posters on the other thread that people seem to have this culture of entitlement, that they are victims and oh woe is them. The ones who want to do something but don't know what to do deserve the help, not the ones who know what to do, and simply won't.

S.
 
#10
Markintime said:
He's saying don't just treat the symptoms, treat the cause.
It's very easy to stick people in gaol, perhaps it would be a good idea to spend some money on trying to prevent someone offending in the first place.
All true, but we need to be clear about what the cause is. Generally people look at the intermediate cause - gangs, drunken or drug taking parents, failing schools, hoplessness...............

But what is the cause of all that? A failure to discipline, a failure to punish, a failure to insist.

The state has hands of clay. If you allow schools to go to sh*t because all day every day the little darlings are chattering and fuc*ing about with mobile phones, allow them to boot the sh*t out of one another and deal with it through children's panels, "negotiate" with parents to try and have them feed and clothe their kids, you get nowhere. The idea that the working class are so endemically hopless that they need to be told to take out rubbish, buy cheap raw ingredients and cook, watch decent telly, stand over kids and supervise homework, attend parents' night.................

Everything changes once a kid knows that they can walk to the library on their own at eight o'clock at night, check their emails, do their homework and walk home with a book, and know that when they are confronted by a gang they can say the following - "Sure, you can kick the living shi*e out of me and there's nothing I can do to stop you, but if you do you know you are going to be the sorriest wee bas*ards in Europe, the local cops will boot you into a coma, nobody will give a fu*k about you, you'll be thrown into a prison where you'll be raped and slashed......go for it; what you'll do to me is nothing compared to what will happen to you - my gang's the state. You have a blade - push comes to shove my gang has paratroopers and then thermonuclear devices. I have the Queen's protection. Kill me, sure.....but you know and I know right after that you'll all wish you were dead".

Once you can say that, everything changes. You can sack all the youth workers, social workers and (ironically) most of the cops and prison officers.

Make a decent threat and you have to carry it out rarely. F*ck about and you'll spend billions and all your time "managing" the problem.

Criminals can be deterred. Gangsters prove it.
 
#13
Nanny State. Simple as....

We now have millions of parents that have never been disciplined themselves
Never been scared at the sight of a policeman, even if innocent.
Never called there elders by there Surname. 'Hello Mr Smith'
Never been told off at school.
Never seen hardship.
Never played out and had to be back by dark fall, 'or else..!'
Never had a back hander for lying or for being cheeky.

Although physical violence isn't the answer, Discipline and Respect just isn't installed by the New Wave of Nanny State Parents, as they have probably never had it themselves.

People waffe on about Military Style ways of sorting things out. But it's just another scape-goat and another level at where to point the finger of blame.

Even Esther Ransom, who was on Breakfast TV recently, said that the 'Childline' factor had gone to far, she said that the Nanny State was never what they were trying to acheive with Childline.

Parents can't discipline kids
Schools can't even raise a finger, let alone tell a child off.

So give it to the Forces, and then blame them for ferrel children running riot. No thanks, I'd rather have been undermanned.
 
#14
gobbyidiot said:
Markintime said:
He's saying don't just treat the symptoms, treat the cause.
It's very easy to stick people in gaol, perhaps it would be a good idea to spend some money on trying to prevent someone offending in the first place.
All true, but we need to be clear about what the cause is. Generally people look at the intermediate cause - gangs, drunken or drug taking parents, failing schools, hoplessness...............

But what is the cause of all that? A failure to discipline, a failure to punish, a failure to insist.

The state has hands of clay. If you allow schools to go to sh*t because all day every day the little darlings are chattering and fuc*ing about with mobile phones, allow them to boot the sh*t out of one another and deal with it through children's panels, "negotiate" with parents to try and have them feed and clothe their kids, you get nowhere. The idea that the working class are so endemically hopless that they need to be told to take out rubbish, buy cheap raw ingredients and cook, watch decent telly, stand over kids and supervise homework, attend parents' night.................

Everything changes once a kid knows that they can walk to the library on their own at eight o'clock at night, check their emails, do their homework and walk home with a book, and know that when they are confronted by a gang they can say the following - "Sure, you can kick the living shi*e out of me and there's nothing I can do to stop you, but if you do you know you are going to be the sorriest wee bas*ards in Europe, the local cops will boot you into a coma, nobody will give a fu*k about you, you'll be thrown into a prison where you'll be raped and slashed......go for it; what you'll do to me is nothing compared to what will happen to you - my gang's the state. You have a blade - push comes to shove my gang has paratroopers and then thermonuclear devices. I have the Queen's protection. Kill me, sure.....but you know and I know right after that you'll all wish you were dead".

Once you can say that, everything changes. You can sack all the youth workers, social workers and (ironically) most of the cops and prison officers.

Make a decent threat and you have to carry it out rarely. F*ck about and you'll spend billions and all your time "managing" the problem.

Criminals can be deterred. Gangsters prove it.
Top post mate. :1:
 
#16
gobbyidiot said:
Markintime said:
He's saying don't just treat the symptoms, treat the cause.
It's very easy to stick people in gaol, perhaps it would be a good idea to spend some money on trying to prevent someone offending in the first place.
All true, but we need to be clear about what the cause is. Generally people look at the intermediate cause - gangs, drunken or drug taking parents, failing schools, hoplessness...............

But what is the cause of all that? A failure to discipline, a failure to punish, a failure to insist.

The state has hands of clay. If you allow schools to go to sh*t because all day every day the little darlings are chattering and fuc*ing about with mobile phones, allow them to boot the sh*t out of one another and deal with it through children's panels, "negotiate" with parents to try and have them feed and clothe their kids, you get nowhere. The idea that the working class are so endemically hopless that they need to be told to take out rubbish, buy cheap raw ingredients and cook, watch decent telly, stand over kids and supervise homework, attend parents' night.................

Everything changes once a kid knows that they can walk to the library on their own at eight o'clock at night, check their emails, do their homework and walk home with a book, and know that when they are confronted by a gang they can say the following - "Sure, you can kick the living shi*e out of me and there's nothing I can do to stop you, but if you do you know you are going to be the sorriest wee bas*ards in Europe, the local cops will boot you into a coma, nobody will give a fu*k about you, you'll be thrown into a prison where you'll be raped and slashed......go for it; what you'll do to me is nothing compared to what will happen to you - my gang's the state. You have a blade - push comes to shove my gang has paratroopers and then thermonuclear devices. I have the Queen's protection. Kill me, sure.....but you know and I know right after that you'll all wish you were dead".

Once you can say that, everything changes. You can sack all the youth workers, social workers and (ironically) most of the cops and prison officers.

Make a decent threat and you have to carry it out rarely. F*ck about and you'll spend billions and all your time "managing" the problem.

Criminals can be deterred. Gangsters prove it.
Spot on, there was some mong mp on the tv a little while back advising that anyone who is over 16 and caught with a knife could face a custodial. What a load of bo**ox. Your still as dead if a child of 12 stabs you as you are if the knife is in the hands of an adult.
To add to the post 1 way of proving that gaoling offenders for carryin knives is a life saver then just ask "HOW THE FUKC ARE THEY GOING TO KILL SOMEONE IF THEY ARE INSIDE". Anti scrote rant over for now.
:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
 
#17
Can't be bothered to read the link but the chap is right. Young thugs wandering around and using knives should not be jailed. There are plenty of lamp-posts and a lot of rope going spare.
 
#18
gobbyidiot said:
Markintime said:
He's saying don't just treat the symptoms, treat the cause.
It's very easy to stick people in gaol, perhaps it would be a good idea to spend some money on trying to prevent someone offending in the first place.
All true, but we need to be clear about what the cause is. Generally people look at the intermediate cause - gangs, drunken or drug taking parents, failing schools, hoplessness...............

But what is the cause of all that? A failure to discipline, a failure to punish, a failure to insist.

The state has hands of clay. If you allow schools to go to sh*t because all day every day the little darlings are chattering and fuc*ing about with mobile phones, allow them to boot the sh*t out of one another and deal with it through children's panels, "negotiate" with parents to try and have them feed and clothe their kids, you get nowhere. The idea that the working class are so endemically hopless that they need to be told to take out rubbish, buy cheap raw ingredients and cook, watch decent telly, stand over kids and supervise homework, attend parents' night.................

Everything changes once a kid knows that they can walk to the library on their own at eight o'clock at night, check their emails, do their homework and walk home with a book, and know that when they are confronted by a gang they can say the following - "Sure, you can kick the living shi*e out of me and there's nothing I can do to stop you, but if you do you know you are going to be the sorriest wee bas*ards in Europe, the local cops will boot you into a coma, nobody will give a fu*k about you, you'll be thrown into a prison where you'll be raped and slashed......go for it; what you'll do to me is nothing compared to what will happen to you - my gang's the state. You have a blade - push comes to shove my gang has paratroopers and then thermonuclear devices. I have the Queen's protection. Kill me, sure.....but you know and I know right after that you'll all wish you were dead".

Once you can say that, everything changes. You can sack all the youth workers, social workers and (ironically) most of the cops and prison officers.

Make a decent threat and you have to carry it out rarely. F*ck about and you'll spend billions and all your time "managing" the problem.

Criminals can be deterred. Gangsters prove it.
Very true!
 

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