J C De Menezes - We Did Nothing Wrong

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by MrPVRd, Oct 7, 2008.

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  1. I have a lot of sympathy for the police (tempered by occasional flashes of righteous outrage) but it seems to have vanished on this occasion.

    The "gold commander" on the day the unfortunate Brazilian was shot reckons she, and her staff, did nothing wrong. Latest is below.


    I recall reading of a number of glitches leading up to the shooting, including a surveillance officer taking a leak, the failure of the team to pick up JCDM at his flat, the failure to stop him getting on a bus, and a breakdown in giving orders with the apparent "stop him at any costs" instruction being issued.

    I've worked in a busy ops room with air defence responsibilities, and if an operational commander had ordered the shoot-down of an aircraft (light, business jet, airliner) as the result of errors then they would in all likelihood have faced court-martial and disgrace. All our ops-room comms were recorded on tape - why not the police ops room?

    The wider implication of this disaster is that members of the public may be reluctant to call in suspicious activity in case there is a similar incident - this is why someone needs to take ultimate responsibility for a botched operation.
  2. I am in the job and whilst I agree it was a lamentable occurrance, I would hate to see your post had he been a suicide bomber and no action had been taken. I would however prefer they admit to any mistakes they made, albeit in the knowledge that there would be no prosecutions, but merely a 'learning' curve. We don't live in Columbia and in my view our police service is better than this. But and it's a big but, in todays letigious society no-one can afford to admit blame. A sad, but true fact.
  3. We did nothing wrong? Nope, absolutely spot-on bit of policing. 'Course it would have been nice if you got the right person BEFORE shooting him in the head. Hey-ho, these things happen.
  4. Yeah, but that's just bollocks innit. They shot an unarmed man catching a train and doing absolutely nothing wrong, lied repeatedly about it, then found no fault with their own.
    Fukcing disgraceful. It's a license to kill members of the public in an attempt to scare the masses. What a crock.
  5. Ord_Sgt

    Ord_Sgt RIP

    Accidents can and do happen. In aviation, for example, human factors is something that is studied closely because people are fallible. Every accident has a chain of events that leads to it. If one link in that chain can be broken the accident doesn't occur. In this case mistakes were obviously made, or the poor chap wouldn't have been shot. So they need to accept that mistakes were made, identify what they were, and amend SOPs so it doesn't happen again for the same reasons.

    To claim they did nothing wrong is just stupid.
  6. Whilst I have little symapthy for the dead Brazilian and I understand the difficulties the Police had to deal with, if nobody did anything wrong why is Jean Charles de Menezes dead?
  7. As someone who makes a living from civvy land observation & surveillance the whole Stockwell shooting incident went off on the wrong tangent as soon as the 'victim' left the flat.

    The bloke in the o.p was taking a whizz and didnt get a solid look at the guy - he radio'd that he couldnt confirm the ID..... but nobody seemed to pick up on it....

    ... somewhere wires were crossed and it was assumed it was "the bomber". Everything else was just a increasing margin of error stemming from that original problem. No one took an effort to be positive on the ID.

    Unfortunately it ended in a needless death. That's my tuppence worth anyway.
  8. Agree entirely, but it will never happen.
  9. Because he was (illegaly) in the wrong place, at the wrong time perhaps?
  10. If you really believe that members of the police service, armed or otherwise relish the thought of taking a life, you need to get one, a life that is.
  11. He wasn't an illegal. He was in the right place on the right train going to work and paying taxes rather than scrounge off the state. He got filled with holes, because some copper wanted to make a name for himself. That goes all the way back up the CoC.

    For Sir Ian Blair to have claimed he was in the dark for so long, is bollox, and I'm stunned he hasn't ever been seriously pressed on that.

    So why exactly do you have little sympathy Jagman?
  12. I heard that his Visa had expired, and he shouldn't have been here?

  13. Excerpt from wikipedia....

  14. I have little sympathy for de Menezes on the grounds he should not have been here. He did not have a valid Visa to be here, unless the news reports were wrong on that score?
    I fully appreciate that doesn't justify shooting him and the reality is it could have been anybody that got shot that day (therefor rendering his Visa irrelevant)
    I do however believe that the sin here is the statement that the Police did nothing wrong (an innocent man died and nobody made an error?) and the lies and arse covering that went on in the aftermath.

    Editted to add that I have just read the post above. Stillnot convinced but then I'm no immigration expert. Are we to asume his immigration status has been clouded for some purpose?
  15. I don't think that Commander Dick (unfortunate name) did anything wrong. If there was any doubt Sir Ian would not have promoted her to DAC Dick now would he?
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