Its poppycock to grow crops here but destroy them in Afghan

#1
With the Taliban resurgent, and with British casualties mounting, and with more illegal opium being grown than ever before, it is time to look again at one obvious solution. Surely we should be pursuing the argument first proposed three years ago by the Senlis council: to see if we can work with Afghan villages and farmers to develop a legitimate medical market for their crops. We have an ageing Western population; we are making infinite advances in fighting disease and in prolonging life. We are therefore going to be in need of ever more painkilling drugs. The people of Afghanistan have shown they can grow those drugs in quantity. Surely we should be helping them to turn those poppies into medicine.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/...ops-here-but-destroy-them-in-Afghanistan.html

BoJo, just four years behind the times: http://www.poppyformedicine.net/

msr
 
#2
jarrod248 said:
MSR, in theory it's a great plan, the problem is they grow much more than we could use. There has been very targetted work at getting people into drug treatment and who knows maybe less people will be using Heroin. I wonder what might happen to drug treatment services should we have a change of govt.
Methadone is a very cheap drug and if more people are on Methadone and using less Heroin maybe we'll have even bigger supplies and a cheaper product on the streets. It could be then that we get younger and younger addicts due to Heroin being cheaper.
So what do you propose?
 
#3
jarrod248 said:
MSR, in theory it's a great plan, the problem is they grow much more than we could use. There has been very targetted work at getting people into drug treatment and who knows maybe less people will be using Heroin. I wonder what might happen to drug treatment services should we have a change of govt.
Methadone is a very cheap drug and if more people are on Methadone and using less Heroin maybe we'll have even bigger supplies and a cheaper product on the streets. It could be then that we get younger and younger addicts due to Heroin being cheaper.
It's a brilliant plan! The problem is that nobody's got the bottle to initiate it. An even better plan would be to legalise heroin and use the dough saved on the "war on drugs" to equip the Armed Forces.

Methadone may be comparatively cheap, but it's an absolutely disastrous drug and far inferior to heroin. Just as an example:

Withdrawal time from heroin: 4 - 5 days
Withdrawal time from methadone: up to six weeks.

MsG
 
#4
How much would it cost to buy the entire crop ? Buying an entire years crop from the farmers would not cost too much and yet would have a major impact on the amount of Heroin that is available (if the 90% figure is correct). We could even go halfers with the Yanks. It's worth a punt as nothing the Govt have tried in the past has had any resounding success.

It would also have the added bonus of denting the Talibs cash flow (if only for a year). If its a success then do it again the following year. Of course Heroin production in other countries would increase but no doubt it would take time to set up the smuggling infrastructure to get the product to the UK.
 
#5
It does sound like a great plan, but I can see a problem with guarding it. We get the farmers to grow something that we can then use, but then the Taliban just jump onto those crops as a means of making money.

They armoured farmers could be assigned guarding duties at least! :D
 
#6
The EU has lots of experience in getting farmers to grow crops that no-one needs, in order to further other aims (e.g. the retention of French or Italian rural lifestyles). As you really only have to persuade the German and English taxpayers that this is a good use of their EU money, it should be achievable.

It wouldn't be the work of a genius to buy the stuff, use what we want and use the rest for landfill, put it in concrete blocks and sink it, or just store it in Hartlepool for all I care.

It's the next two steps in the story that matter. Are we prepared to resource the increase in crime that will come when the price of heroin goes through the roof? And are we prepared to resource the increase in violence in AFG when the Taliban fight back against the removal of their source of income?
 
#8
The idea of buying up the poppy crop misses the point. The Taliban need money, so they force farmers to grow poppies for heroine and use the money to fund themselves. If maize would make more money it would be maize. If we were to pay the farmers direct for their crops, the Taliban would just extort the money from the farmers. Poppies are not the problem, its stemming the funding to the Taliban that needs solving. Do you not think if it was as easy as buying up the crop someone would have tried it by now?
 
#9
Ord_Sgt said:
Do you not think if it was as easy as buying up the crop someone would have tried it by now?
But no-one has tried it, so we will never know.

If the farmers in Afghan had a regular supply of income, they would not turn to the Taliban.

msr
 
#10
jarrod248 said:
msr said:
sc_obvious said:
How much would it cost to buy the entire crop ?
Pennies: http://www.poppyformedicine.net and it would be self financing
Where would it end, would they plant even more and want more money?
Does paying for the crop encourage more and better production?
Does pouring in massive amounts of soldiers and associated military hardware reduce it?
 
#12
turning to the taliban is not the problem, as has been pointed out unless we threatened to do them serious harm the farmers will always work for the talib as all the money in the world from us will not stop the taliban doing nasty stuff to them/families etc. we cant protect them 24/7 and we wont be there forever, I dont blame them from taking the safer option.
 
#13
Buy the whole crop, use what we need for medical purposes, then distroy the rest. While I could care less about junkies, the crimes they commit to fund their pathetic "lifestyle" harm real people. I'm willing to bet that buying up the Afghan poppy crop would cost less than what we spend on dealing with drug related crime.

Once we have stopped the flow of heroin, we can start to wean the junkies off methadon; the scum will not be able to go back on heroin since there won't be any left.
 
#14
This idea is more about solving the problems in Afghanistan, not directly solving the problem of drug abuse in the UK.
 
#15
jarrod248 said:
Fallschirmjager said:
Why not kill every heroin addict on the planet. Hey presto! No more market for opium! It's not as if heroin addicts deserve to live.
Thailand shot hundreds of Heroin users, guess what it didn't work. The PM who was ousted ? Thaksin shinawatra ordered it.
Well it didn't make it worse though, did it? :wink:
 
#16
jarrod248 said:
msr said:
This idea is more about solving the problems in Afghanistan, not directly solving the problem of drug abuse in the UK.
No but Heroin use is why we have people making loads of money out of poppy production.
Only they aren't, because there is very little money to be made from growing it. The real money is made by the people who transport it and sell it on.

msr
 
#17
jarrod248 said:
Thailand shot hundreds of Heroin users, guess what it didn't work. The PM who was ousted ? Thaksin shinawatra ordered it.
That was the problem. Shooting hundreds is no good. You have to kill all of them for it to work.

msr said:
This idea is more about solving the problems in Afghanistan, not directly solving the problem of drug abuse in the UK.
It will solve the problem that there would be no market for their opium, hence no funding.
 
#18
jarrod248 said:
msr said:
jarrod248 said:
msr said:
This idea is more about solving the problems in Afghanistan, not directly solving the problem of drug abuse in the UK.
No but Heroin use is why we have people making loads of money out of poppy production.
Only they aren't, because there is very little money to be made from growing it. The real money is made by the people who transport it and sell it on.

msr
I agree the farmers must be paid very little but more than what they'd get for other crops I imagine. the poppy does of course grow well there.
Exactly, so let's start thinking intelligently about this ;)

msr
 
#19
msr said:
This idea is more about solving the problems in Afghanistan, not directly solving the problem of drug abuse in the UK.
Permission to speak freely, Boss? To be honest, I could'nt give a fcuk if every Afghan man, woman and child dropped dead. Our priorities MUST be to protect British soldiers and civlilians.

If offering the Afghan poppy farmers a viable alternative to selling heroin and co-operating with Terry saves British soldiers and/or reduces drug related crime in the UK, then I'm all for it. If using the tactics of Alexander the Great - basically, slaughter every Afghan man, woman, child or goat who even looks the wrong way at your soldiers - was a viable option, I would not hesitate to advocate that too. :evil:
 
#20
How much money (A) did the Afghan Government extort from us last year? Yes, I know what word I used, and that describes it best.

Now, how much money (B) would it take to buy as much of the harvest as we could?

How does A compare with B?
 

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