Its all about those ghastly Europeans..

#3
Cabana said:
He will be a total fool of a Blair type if he does abandon a UK referendum.

I suspect he has already decided to do so.
If that is the case then he is worthless to me and I will vote elsewhere.
 
#4
Will it? And Will he?
If he does support the EU then that pleases the leaders of the other EU states and I doubt people are not going to vote for him because he supports the EU, he's going to win the next election almost certainly and I don't think that this would change much as Labour have made such a mess of their own chances.
And if he did abandon a referendum then there are numerous ways he can excuse himself. For example as the Lisbon Treaty will already be in force then there is not much that he could do about that anyway so the referendum would be about whether Britain would want to stay in the EU at all - a motion which would surely pass as although many may not like the Lisbon Treaty, it is recognized that we do reap some benefits (i.e free trade) from membership. A referendum is also expensive, the more so as we are the only western country not to have come out of the recession yet.
And finally a referendum would merely split his part, regardless of the outcome. He would have one half campaigning for the EU and the other half against - with him in the middle. Not a good idea then...
And indeed if he has already lost your votes by not holding a referendum then he probably isn't going to lose any more by supporting the EU.
 
#5
What on earth do you want from him? He has been chased to make a policy decision and now he's making it, he is getting pilloried for what is a no brainer of a decision. Once the treaty is ratified, it becomes LAW, which is much harder to get undone. Cameron has stated that he wants the UK to remain in the EU and a referendum would be a vote on leaving it. He will ( if elected ) go in to bat with the Europeans and attempt to secure opt outs for the UK on certain subject, as Margaret Thatcher did.

The ratification is the issue. If the deal hadn't been closed when they had the opportunity for a referendum, then DC would have been in a massively strong position. As soon as it comes into law, then his position is massively changed.

Anyone who feels peeved at this turn of events had best turn their ire on to the real criminals in this shabby affair, and that is the Labour party, that have railroaded through this shameful piece of legislation.
 
#6
Is it that simple though Generalissimo?
The EU is a massive issue to millions of the electorate.
If you think about it 23% of the vote went to UKIP, the BNP and the English Democrats in the EU elections while the Conservatives got 27.7%
It all rather depends on how peeved off the electorate are by the time the general election comes round doesn't it? Cameron is taking a hell of a gamble by refusing to commit one way or another.
The question boils down to wether people take the EU seriously enough to place their vote on the one issue. The only way I can answer that is to say personally I do, I will vote for somebody who is going to give me voice on the EU. IF Cameron will not then I will vote elsewhere and consequences be damned.
How many millions of the UK electorate will do the same?
 
#7
the_guru said:
What on earth do you want from him? He has been chased to make a policy decision and now he's making it, he is getting pilloried for what is a no brainer of a decision.

What I want from Cameron is for him to tell us his intentions. Nothing more, nothing less.

Yes I agree Labour are to blame for the situation as it stands now but Labour are becoming of little relevence to our place in (or out) of the EU. By the general election Labour won't matter in the least.
It is the future I am interested in and Brown is just an irrelevant dead man walking on this issue.
 
#8
Methinks this little Promise Call Me Dave made a little while ago might bite him in the arrse

Linky

Today, I will give this cast-iron guarantee: If I become PM a Conservative government will hold a referendum on any EU treaty that emerges from these negotiations.
Liar liar - Your pants are on fire...
 
#9
Looks like he has decided to go back on his "iron clad" promise and shoot himself in the foot .. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...-to-tell-voters-no-vote-on-Lisbon-Treaty.html

After the women only list for potential MP's and now this I will no longer consider voting for this crowd, they are just as bad as Labour. A promise is a promise, admittedly Labour got us into this mess but Dave will avoid a vote because he knows the result would put him in a right dilemma if he does win the next election. With bonfire night looming is there any bigger example of just how right Guy Fawkes had it ??
 
#10
Hakagure said:
I will no longer consider voting for this crowd, they are just as bad as Labour.
You and me both. Think I'll give UKIP my cross.

And I've voted Tory since 1989... Well done Dave. Well done. :roll:
 
#11
From what I've seen on the News he's already upset EU leaders by writing to the Czechs and asking them to delay ratifying the treaty. To me that is proof that if he can he will have a referendum.
I wonder how much of a vote breaker the EU really is, yes mid term when you have an unpopular Government then the minor parties will get a disproportionate share of the votes, this is also true of local elections. When it comes to a general election people either tend to vote to get the incumbent party ousted or on major national issues such as income tax. Many worry that a vote for a minor party may mean the current Government remaining, all be it with a reduced majority. In other words they'll register protest votes when possible but at a general election daren't risk it so stick with voting for a party they believe stands a reasonable chance of either being elected or at least holding a balance of power in the case of the Lib Dems. There is still a considerable amount of support in the UK for the Government, especially on the economy so anyone who wants rid of Labour probably needs to vote for a major party.
 
#12
Markintime said:
There is still a considerable amount of support in the UK for the Government, especially on the economy so anyone who wants rid of Labour probably needs to vote for a major party.
Fair comment. I want nothing more than these current Mongs out. But this EU thing is a sticky wicket.

I intend to harumph several times during the course of Today..
 
#13
Its an unknown quantity MiT, the only answer I can give is that I personally will not vote for Cameron unless he undertakes to give the electorate their say on the EU once and for all. It ppears I am far from alone in that view.
The reasoning is simple, aa Brtiain that denies its people the basic democratic right to decide is not the Britain I call my home. It doesn't matter which political piece of shite is at the helm if the resulting denial of democratic freedom is the same under both of the big two options.
In short, if Cameron will not give me my say on the EU then he is just as bad as Blair/Brown and is worthless to me, accordingly he will not get my vote.

Undoubtedly you are right and the overwhelming majority will vote on the whole balance of issues at the general election. Will enough vote on the EU issue alone to cause a hung Parliament? Possibly.....
 
#14
Well…


We have one of two options here.


1). Either Camoron is too stupid to realize he's been boxed into a corner by Liebour and any acceptance of the EU Treaty means millions of Tory voters will vote UKIP and mean Liebour win the next election…

or

2). Like B'Liar, Camoron is looking beyond Westminster and a future in the EU Stazi for himself and is happy to sell the UK down the drain.
 
#15
Generalissimo said:
it is recognized that we do reap some benefits (i.e free trade) from membership.

Inside or outside the EU, they HAVE to alllow trade with the UK, the WTO says so.

Also, some economists reckon we would actually be better off to the tune of £4 Billion outside the EU StaziState.
 
#16
Oil_Slick said:
Well…


We have one of two options here.


1). Either Camoron is too stupid to realize he's been boxed into a corner by Liebour and any acceptance of the EU Treaty means millions of Tory voters will vote UKIP and mean Liebour win the next election…

or

2). Like B'Liar, Camoron is looking beyond Westminster and a future in the EU Stazi for himself and is happy to sell the UK down the drain.
I have a feeling that Cam the Sham will opt for taking the stance that the Treaty is a done deal so better to get the economy sorted and try to get concessions out of Europe. One thing is for certain, with our economy already in the depths of recession now is not the time to even think of dissembling an EU infrastructure that reaches to the very heart of our Nation as it stands now, let alone with the Treaty ratified.
I'm very unhappy about the Treaty and about how much of our independence and sovereignty is being sold down the Swanny but I'm far more scared that Labour will remain in power and what that will entail for our already shrinking civil liberties.
 
#17
I've voted Conservative ever since I became elegible to vote. Cameron has just lost the Conservatives my vote.
I consider him to have given the people of this country a cast-iron guarantee that there would be a Referendum on the EU Treaty. He's just gone back on his word and I will be voting UKIP if they're still in business next year.
 
#18
Markintime said:
I'm very unhappy about the Treaty and about how much of our independence and sovereignty is being sold down the Swanny but I'm far more scared that Labour will remain in power and what that will entail for our already shrinking civil liberties.
How much more can our civil liberties be erroded than to deny us a vote on who we want to govern us?
 
#19
Once the Czech's ratiffy,it becomes law and so any referendum by the UK is pointless - it would be a huge waste of time and money. You all complain about Government waste yet would be quiet happy for this to go ahead. Cameroon was quiet clear - if the treaty was still not ratified by the time Cons got into power then he would hold a referendum, if it was too late then he wouldnt. Its now too late.

If you want to look at blame, look at Labour who promised us but didnt deliver, and look at the Irish who would of kept voting until the country said yes
 
#20
drain_sniffer said:
Once the Czech's ratiffy,it becomes law and so any referendum by the UK is pointless - it would be a huge waste of time and money.

Uh, no…

Cameron if he was PM could quite simply announce that the signature penned to the treaty in the back room by Broon was null and void as there had not been the Referendum on the treaty as promised in the Liebour Manifesto and that it was back to the table so to speak.

What's the EU going to do if they don;t like that… Invade us and force us to remain in their Stazi State?
 

Similar threads

Latest Threads

Top