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Its a bit like a "5.56 vs 7.62" question, but not...

#1
Yeah, well, i'm curious - .177, or .22 in an air rifle. I've decided on the rifle already, 12 ft/ibs Air Arms TDR, the question is about the calibre.

So, which one? My usual game will be pigeon and rabbits, with the occassional corvid.

So, learned ARRSE shooters, advice welcome!
 
#2
Same difference seen as all air weapons in the UK are limited to 12 FtLbs.

.22 not as flat but more impact, .177 flatter trajectory less impact and longer range so good for target shooting.

.177 not recommended for vermin kill as it probably won't at range (for an air rifle).

Air Arms is an excellent choice by the way. I have 2 that should be looked after a lot better than I do but they never fail to be reliable and accurate. One of them is a .22 lever, one is a .177 gas operated and both have to be aimed in totally different ways due to the totally different characteristics of the pellets.

Unless you go on the internet of course and buy the bits from the US that jack the power up to FAC level, which all Air Arms rifles can be due to them being built for the US market as well.

But that would be naughty and illegal and if a Policeman ever turned up with a chronograph, you would go to jail.
 
#3
There are a few .20's kicking around, which is supposed to be a nice compramise between the better accuracy of .177 and the impact of a .22.... Pellets are a bit more expensive though!
 
#8
TamH70 said:
.22 would be my preference. I take it you are not allowed to use a firearm?

Tam
I have a Shotgun license and i'm squared away on that front - I've felt the urge to spend some hard earned on a airgun as it is more suitable sometimes than a firearm.

Long term plan is, when i've sorted my life out to get a FAC and then upgrade the rifle to FAC standards... which is why i'm currently thinking .22
 
#9
Both .177 & .22 will kill airgun quarry at airgun ranges, it's all about putting the pellet into the kill zone.

I have an AA S510 in .177 that I use for rabbits and pigeons and a FX Verminator in .22 for rats and ferrals.

One point about upgrading your TDR to FAC. I believe you will only get up to 20 shots (maybe less). Should be ok for a general rabbit hunt but for lamping or ratting you may find that it is not enough (cue having to take your bottle/pump with you to refill).

Regards,

Q.
 
#10
.177 You need penetration and in this case the 177 will penetrate better and have a slightly flatter trajectory. I think I wrote something up on arrse on the topic before once.
 
#11
"Long term plan is, when i've sorted my life out to get a FAC and then upgrade the rifle to FAC standards... which is why i'm currently thinking .22"

Well, .22 calibre would be best placed for future upgrade to a FAC standard rifle. As long as the frame etc could cope with the boost in pressures that would entail.

Tam
 
#12
TamH70 said:
"Long term plan is, when i've sorted my life out to get a FAC and then upgrade the rifle to FAC standards... which is why i'm currently thinking .22"

Well, .22 calibre would be best placed for future upgrade to a FAC standard rifle. As long as the frame etc could cope with the boost in pressures that would entail.

Tam
If you are getting an FAC just buy a .22 rimfire. It does what an air rifle does but with a lot less effort and with much better performance all round.

Only reasons for using an FAC air rifle would be very specialist jobs such as shooting out pigeons in tall warehouses etc. Even then, CB/ BB caps etc for .22 rimfire are available.
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
#13
TigerDB said:
There are a few .20's kicking around, which is supposed to be a nice compramise between the better accuracy of .177 and the impact of a .22.... Pellets are a bit more expensive though!
And the weekend prize for not reading the post goes to...
 
#14
Stowage of ammunition may be a problem - I would think you need the mother and father of all gun-safes if you are keeping rounds at home. If kept in a gun-club, there is the problem of going to the trouble of fetching them and transporting them to wherever one is doing the shooting.

IMHO, PC Plod will be cracking down heavily on this issue after Derek Bird went on his shooting spree in Cumbria.

Pellets for air-rifles are a tad less risky for home storage, I think.

Tam
 
#15
TamH70 said:
Stowage of ammunition may be a problem - I would think you need the mother and father of all gun-safes if you are keeping rounds at home. If kept in a gun-club, there is the problem of going to the trouble of fetching them and transporting them to wherever one is doing the shooting.

IMHO, PC Plod will be cracking down heavily on this issue after Derek Bird went on his shooting spree in Cumbria.

Pellets for air-rifles are a tad less risky for home storage, I think.

Tam
Nurse! Nurse!
 
#16
TamH70 said:
Stowage of ammunition may be a problem - I would think you need the mother and father of all gun-safes if you are keeping rounds at home. If kept in a gun-club, there is the problem of going to the trouble of fetching them and transporting them to wherever one is doing the shooting.

IMHO, PC Plod will be cracking down heavily on this issue after Derek Bird went on his shooting spree in Cumbria.

Pellets for air-rifles are a tad less risky for home storage, I think.

Tam
Not really. It all depends on how many rounds you are wanting to keep. A standard BS Gun Cabinet with a separate locking internal shelf is not expensive and you'll be able to keep around 500 .22LR rounds in that and PC plod will be more than happy. Beyond that, you can simply buy a safe from Argos (I use one of the Chubb digital lock ones) for about £40 and keep more ammo in there. I'm licenced for 5k at the moment, but I would think that unless you have good reason you'll be limited to around 600 to keep and 500 to purchase initially.
 
#17
From Infiltrator:
"Not really. It all depends on how many rounds you are wanting to keep. A standard BS Gun Cabinet with a separate locking internal shelf is not expensive and you'll be able to keep around 500 .22LR rounds in that and PC plod will be more than happy."

Oh ok. Bit more of a reasoned response than Ex_Stab's
"Nurse! Nurse!" though mibbies not as funny.

Thing is, I wouldn't count on things remaining as they were status quo ante Bird.

I still don't think all the fall-out from what that a-hole did with a legally held .22 long rifle calibre firearm has landed yet.

Tam
 
#18
Tam, the mood music is that the Bird incident will not result in more FAC legislation.. Please do not talk up something that is not there!

Passing an opinion is one thing; but offering advice when you clearly have little understanding of the subject matter is quite another. I am not trying to be rude or condecending but I must point out that, although you are clearly interested in the subject, your knowledge is pretty poor. There ARE a lot of folk on this board who actually DO know what they are on about.. Please just watch & learn for a bit - you are just showing your ignorance with your recent posts.

Dai...

The limiting factor for use of firearms to take pests and game is where you intend to do it. If you have permission to shoot on suitable land then in many cases a conventional rifle is often the way to go. You will have to pay for an FAC, but everything else is comparable in cost, indeed you can get a good S/H .22RF for a lot less than some airguns. Yes, you need a gun cabinet, but even for an airgun, you should have one of these anyway...

(What am I DOING offering a matelot advice about shooting... "Jack with a rifle is as dangerous as an Army officer with a map...")
 
#19
Clearly HE117 you forget the Naval Brigades.... or something :p


Indeed, I do have a gun cabinet already for my shotgun, and various permissions of land owning relatives to shoot it on their land. The Air rifle, as has been guessed rather accurately so far, would mainly be used for rats and pigeons around the farmyards itself, and in the various copses nearby for rabbits. You would suggest sacking off the air rifle altogether and just getting a FAC as more appropriate then??
 
#20
Yeoman_dai said:
Clearly HE117 you forget the Naval Brigades.... or something :p


Indeed, I do have a gun cabinet already for my shotgun, and various permissions of land owning relatives to shoot it on their land. The Air rifle, as has been guessed rather accurately so far, would mainly be used for rats and pigeons around the farmyards itself, and in the various copses nearby for rabbits. You would suggest sacking off the air rifle altogether and just getting a FAC as more appropriate then??
If your only requirement for the air rifle is bunnies/rats/pigeons, then I would almost certainly bin the air rifle idea.

One small thing to think about, is that plod will want to discuss with you how you will judge where the round will go, should you miss or the round over penetrate. Not too much of an issue with bunnies/rats, as the round will simply bury itself into the soil. If you are going after roosting pigeons though, you will need to satisfy yourself that the round cannot continue off the land on which you have permission to shoot, and that the round will not cause harm for the rest of its trajectory. Just something to be mulling over whilst waiting for your FLO to have a chat.

Nice easy first machine for you would be something like a ruger 10/22. Semi Auto and a doddle to use. Not all that accurate ex factory, but you can change that really easily with lots and lots of after market stuff. Although you'll hear lots of differing opinions about them. Personally, I think that for the money, you can't go wrong.

If you do go down the FAC, please ensure that you put down that you will want to use it on ranges for zeroing, if you don't and you do go to a range and plod catch you then you are up for a firearms offence straight off.

Finally, don't worry about regs changing post Cumbria. Most of us feel that they probably won't. Of course, none of us has a crystal ball.

Which region are you in? Which police force would you be applying to?
 

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