Italy uses troops as Police

#1
Now I say that this is a worrying story. It certainly doesn't speak well of Italian internal policies, the state of the Police force or ultimately the state of its society. And I don't believe it is simply a problem about immigration.

BBC link here

It says that this is for a 6 month period initially but if it works well in the short term, can you see them pulling them out?
 
#5
I wouldn't mind seeing a chav here get peppered with 5.56, infact It would be a much much bigger benefit to society and to Britain than current Afghanistan operations. Popularity of the Armed Forces would sky rocket amongs normal folk, muslims won't be pissed off (well they'll always be pissed off at everything, but slightly less) it's a win win situation.
 
#7
Thunderer said:
A dangerous path to walk down
Not at all, Thunderer! I think you may be regarding this from a purely Brit point of view; which indeed would set a dangerous and alarming precedence.

However, cast a glance at the way Wops deal with the situation: it's important to realise at this point that Italy still has a gobment demanding National Service, which can be served in the Wop army, or in the "Carabinieri", the local Old Bill.

So to put this whool local thing in its proper setting: Giorgio and Setotto (which actually means ""seventyeight" and who would give a poor kid such a name, I mean honestly?) spend their whole National Service handing out traffic tickets and turning a blind eye to what the local Mafia's doing.

I happened to be in Alba (Lago di Como) when a local hero, Falcone, was totally obliterated by the blast to his vehicle in Sicily (in the very late 1990's)! This couldn't have happened without help from the local thugs!

So the sum is that Wops view the whole affair as below national average interest.

This might be difficult to digest by a Brit public, but, Hey that's the way it is!

MsG
 
#8
in_the_cheapseats said:
Now I say that this is a worrying story. It certainly doesn't speak well of Italian internal policies, the state of the Police force or ultimately the state of its society. And I don't believe it is simply a problem about immigration.

BBC link here

It says that this is for a 6 month period initially but if it works well in the short term, can you see them pulling them out?
The US too, by the looks of it.
ABC News' David Wright reports: Answering a question at the Urban League about his approach to combating crime, John McCain suggested that military strategies currently employed by US troops in Iraq could be applied to high crime neighborhoods here in the US.

McCain at first praised the crime-fighting efforts of Rudolph Giuliani when he was mayor of New York City. Then he down-shifted into an approach that sounded considerably harsher.

McCain called them tactics "somewhat like we use in the military."

"You go into neighborhoods, you clamp down, you provide a secure environment for the people that live there, and you make sure that the known criminals are kept under control," he said. "And you provide them with a stable environment and then they cooperate with law enforcement."
Still, on the bright side, if those tactics were used here, at least the lads would get to stay at home for a tour....
 
#9
Bugsy said:
Thunderer said:
A dangerous path to walk down
Not at all, Thunderer! I think you may be regarding this from a purely Brit point of view; which indeed would set a dangerous and alarming precedence.

However, cast a glance at the way Wops deal with the situation: it's important to realise at this point that Italy still has a gobment demanding National Service, which can be served in the Wop army, or in the "Carabinieri", the local Old Bill.

So to put this whool local thing in its proper setting: Giorgio and Setotto (which actually means ""seventyeight" and who would give a poor kid such a name, I mean honestly?) spend their whole National Service handing out traffic tickets and turning a blind eye to what the local Mafia's doing.

I happened to be in Alba (Lago di Como) when a local hero, Falcone, was totally obliterated by the blast to his vehicle in Sicily (in the very late 1990's)! This couldn't have happened without help from the local thugs!

So the sum is that Wops view the whole affair as below national average interest.

This might be difficult to digest by a Brit public, but, Hey that's the way it is!

MsG
Beat me to it. It is worth noting that the Carbineri is PART of the Italian Army and that their army takes a far greater role in internal security than the British Army does in UK.
 
#10
What a bleeding heart pinko piece of ‘lets find some spin to sensationalise and add some drama’ bollox reporting.

My colours to the mast, bloody good positive move by Berlusconi and how I wish we had a similar government with BALLS who put their country and their people first and meant it.


”Critics say the move sends a message that Italy is swamped by crime and that its police are not up to the job.” Really, which critic, name them – a BBC pinko power-nosed adolescent anorak by chance, or maybe some equally feckless moron in Reuters? No Italy is not swamped with crime, neither are the police unable to cope. How do I know? Exactly I don’t, but having spent a total of 3½ years there and still making at least two formal visits a year, (the last a few weeks ago), I reckon my opinion is more valid than a journo punk who’s probably only ventured to some Balearic airport and Brummy owned p1ss’ole.

Tourist spots, like in any country, are tourist spots. But, the regular life of the indigenous people is sacrosanct and treasured by them. For example, the Sunday passeggiata or ‘stroll’. Can take place any evening but most ritualised on Sundays. You dress smart and stroll a square or avenue, catching rays, chatting with your mates, making new ones, stopping for a coffee, a drink and maybe a bite to eat. That is not to be messed-up by aliens who make the place look untidy or want to do their own thing. There is only one ‘thing’ to be done, and you do it or do one – simple as that.

In Verona - beautiful city, Romeo and Juliet and all that – they had an influx of katangas. By day they found work picking cotton whatever, but by night they made the place look untidy, and they couldn’t rent a room. So they built them a Soweto on the edge of town behind an 8’ fence. They can join the passeggiata, but, first they need to speak the language, have money in their pocket, and do what the Italians do because they are IN FCUKIN’ ITALY, not Mogadishu.

I see the soldiers on the street as a brilliant ‘in your face’ move to show to all concerned that the country is serious about protecting it’s way of life, and anyone who threatens that will have a hard time. Alternately they could always descend into a generic sh1t ‘ole like.............?

Oh, and conscription was wound down after they passed Act 331 in 2000. They have smaller professional volunteer Forces today. The Carabinieri are not the ‘local police’, they're heavy duty para-military police. They were part of the Army until 2001 when they were given independent armed service status. Currently they number around 30’000 and comprise several Special Ops units including Special Forces. Still part of the military are the Guardia di Finanza. The ‘local police’ may be a Municipal Officer, who is not armed, but the National police are the Polizia di Stato, who are armed.

”shadow interior minister Marco Minniti said: "It's an image-building operation that risks backfiring." Well the pinko opposition would say that wouldn’t they. But, last April Romano Prodi and his Euros were forced to call an election and the electorate kicked them out for Berlusconi. So who gives a toss what the Euros say.

No.9
 
#11
Steezy said:
I wouldn't mind seeing a chav here get peppered with 5.56, infact It would be a much much bigger benefit to society and to Britain than current Afghanistan operations. Popularity of the Armed Forces would sky rocket amongs normal folk, muslims won't be pissed off (well they'll always be pissed off at everything, but slightly less) it's a win win situation.
No it bloody wouldn't. All the nicks carparks would be full of squaddies practising drill and running around shouting so no one would be able to park their car. And I don't have the energy to come down to some estate (maybe Myatts field) and dig some 20 yr old 2/lt out of the problems he has caused himself by being over keen with the wrong people, or come to that some inf cpl who has been "proactive" with a fireteam.

Trotsky
 
#12
What could go wrong?



The following article was reprinted from Parameters, Summer 1997, pp. 88-109, published by the US Army War College, Carlisle Barracks, Pennsylvania



"Police officers responded to a domestic dispute, accompanied by marines. They had just gone up to the door when two shotgun birdshot rounds were fired through the door, hitting the officers. One yelled `cover me!' to the marines, who then laid down a heavy base of fire. . . . The police officer had not meant `shoot' when he yelled `cover me' to the marines. [He] meant . . . point your weapons and be prepared to respond if necessary. However, the marines responded instantly in the precise way they had been trained, where `cover me' means provide me with cover using firepower. . . . over two hundred bullets [were] fired into that house."[1]
 
#13
xromad said:
What could go wrong?



The following article was reprinted from Parameters, Summer 1997, pp. 88-109, published by the US Army War College, Carlisle Barracks, Pennsylvania



"Police officers responded to a domestic dispute, accompanied by marines. They had just gone up to the door when two shotgun birdshot rounds were fired through the door, hitting the officers. One yelled `cover me!' to the marines, who then laid down a heavy base of fire. . . . The police officer had not meant `shoot' when he yelled `cover me' to the marines. [He] meant . . . point your weapons and be prepared to respond if necessary. However, the marines responded instantly in the precise way they had been trained, where `cover me' means provide me with cover using firepower. . . . over two hundred bullets [were] fired into that house."[1]
Was anyone wounded other than the knob who fired through the door? (and the coppers).

Were other domestic disputees carefull not to start shootin up the joint during their altercations?

Don´t think there is a problem with this scenario.
 
#14
Bugsy said:
However, cast a glance at the way Wops deal with the situation: it's important to realise at this point that Italy still has a gobment demanding National Service, which can be served in the Wop army, or in the "Carabinieri", the local Old Bill.

...

So the sum is that Wops view the whole affair as below national average interest.
MsG
Just for that I'm going to take it out on my Irish-American girlfriend tonight. :twisted:
 
#15
Virgil said:
Bugsy said:
However, cast a glance at the way Wops deal with the situation: it's important to realise at this point that Italy still has a gobment demanding National Service, which can be served in the Wop army, or in the "Carabinieri", the local Old Bill.

...

So the sum is that Wops view the whole affair as below national average interest.
MsG
Just for that I'm going to take it out on my Irish-American girlfriend tonight. :twisted:
Virgil, if she needs any advice, tell her to get in touch with my Wop wife. :D :D :D

MsG
 
#16
No.9 said:
What a bleeding heart pinko piece of ‘lets find some spin to sensationalise and add some drama’ bollox reporting.

My colours to the mast, bloody good positive move by Berlusconi and how I wish we had a similar government with BALLS who put their country and their people first and meant it.


”Critics say the move sends a message that Italy is swamped by crime and that its police are not up to the job.” Really, which critic, name them – a BBC pinko power-nosed adolescent anorak by chance, or maybe some equally feckless moron in Reuters? No Italy is not swamped with crime, neither are the police unable to cope. How do I know? Exactly I don’t, but having spent a total of 3½ years there and still making at least two formal visits a year, (the last a few weeks ago), I reckon my opinion is more valid than a journo punk who’s probably only ventured to some Balearic airport and Brummy owned p1ss’ole.

Tourist spots, like in any country, are tourist spots. But, the regular life of the indigenous people is sacrosanct and treasured by them. For example, the Sunday passeggiata or ‘stroll’. Can take place any evening but most ritualised on Sundays. You dress smart and stroll a square or avenue, catching rays, chatting with your mates, making new ones, stopping for a coffee, a drink and maybe a bite to eat. That is not to be messed-up by aliens who make the place look untidy or want to do their own thing. There is only one ‘thing’ to be done, and you do it or do one – simple as that.

In Verona - beautiful city, Romeo and Juliet and all that – they had an influx of katangas. By day they found work picking cotton whatever, but by night they made the place look untidy, and they couldn’t rent a room. So they built them a Soweto on the edge of town behind an 8’ fence. They can join the passeggiata, but, first they need to speak the language, have money in their pocket, and do what the Italians do because they are IN FCUKIN’ ITALY, not Mogadishu.

I see the soldiers on the street as a brilliant ‘in your face’ move to show to all concerned that the country is serious about protecting it’s way of life, and anyone who threatens that will have a hard time. Alternately they could always descend into a generic sh1t ‘ole like.............?

Oh, and conscription was wound down after they passed Act 331 in 2000. They have smaller professional volunteer Forces today. The Carabinieri are not the ‘local police’, they're heavy duty para-military police. They were part of the Army until 2001 when they were given independent armed service status. Currently they number around 30’000 and comprise several Special Ops units including Special Forces. Still part of the military are the Guardia di Finanza. The ‘local police’ may be a Municipal Officer, who is not armed, but the National police are the Polizia di Stato, who are armed.
”shadow interior minister Marco Minniti said: "It's an image-building operation that risks backfiring." Well the pinko opposition would say that wouldn’t they. But, last April Romano Prodi and his Euros were forced to call an election and the electorate kicked them out for Berlusconi. So who gives a toss what the Euros say.

No.9
Correct, though previous military experience is still required to become a policeman, fireman, or several other government jobs- good recruiting tool in my opinion.
 
#17
Oh how I'd love a section of squaddies to accompany me on a fri/sat night at work (fully supported by legislation and justified of course)

Slag -"What, I swear I'll brokk you up innit, i'll smack you down blood"

Squaddie "slap smack thump crack whack"

Slag - "bleed profusely and whimper"
 
#18
Bugsy said:
Virgil said:
Bugsy said:
However, cast a glance at the way Wops deal with the situation: it's important to realise at this point that Italy still has a gobment demanding National Service, which can be served in the Wop army, or in the "Carabinieri", the local Old Bill.

...

So the sum is that Wops view the whole affair as below national average interest.
MsG
Just for that I'm going to take it out on my Irish-American girlfriend tonight. :twisted:
Virgil, if she needs any advice, tell her to get in touch with my Wop wife. :D :D :D

MsG
My deepest sympathies to you. :p
 
#19
Why such chagrin over the Army backing up the fuzz?

Do many people get so upset in the UK about the Army backing up the Bin men, Firemen, Ambulance men, or coming out in support of floods or searches?

Or are people thinking NI and the odd Luddite repressal by the Yeomanries?

Does anyone remember back to the foot and mouth epidemic, where a large force of soldiers were called out to help? One uit was a Coy of RMPs, and the newscasters and local councilors made great play of the fact that the MPs were NOT there in a policeing capacity but in a General Duties Army support capacity.

Sounds more like the writers of the piece were looking for some moral outrge.
 

RP578

LE
Book Reviewer
#20
Virgil said:
Bugsy said:
However, cast a glance at the way Wops deal with the situation: it's important to realise at this point that Italy still has a gobment demanding National Service, which can be served in the Wop army, or in the "Carabinieri", the local Old Bill.

...

So the sum is that Wops view the whole affair as below national average interest.
MsG
Just for that I'm going to take it out on my Irish-American girlfriend tonight. :twisted:
Virgil, lei è Italiano? Ho pensato che ti sono Americani.
 

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