It Should Never Have Come To This, The Times

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by THESUNJOCK, Mar 31, 2006.

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  1. This was in the Times today

  2. Lions led by donkeys again
  3. Top post, THESUNJOCK, highlighting the oftentimes totally disgraceful conduct of these rectal orifices. All the more reason for a Soldiers' Federation, since far too few people are ready to go into the ring for fair and just treatment of members of the Armed Forces.

  4. Does anyone know what happened to the officer responsible and were those soldiers who were coerced into singing away their pension rights have them reinstated? If nothing happened justice is not being done.
  5. If the Forces had a Federation it would never have got this far. Thanks for that I will look out for the book.
  6. If there was a Federation around at the time of the Biddiss case, the Biddiss case would never have happened and we would not be having this conversation.
  7. A small confusion. fooboy presumably you are thinking of Majar al-Kabir. Most of the Times article was about the Cpl Bidiss case and Skynet is quite right, a Federation would have made a difference.
  8. DPM

    DPM Old-Salt

    Talking of war pensions - we won't get one.

    Navy have just been properly briefed on this, although I've heard nothing through my CoC. Essentially, war pensions are out, and if you don't log injuries sustained pronto, and claim within 5 years, you don't get 'owt.

    Family member works for a big Services charity and is quite worries about implications.

    Anyone any ideas?
  9. I feel a federation would have made a big difference, and as stated we would not be having this conversation. Also the subject of manning control and the way it was managed by higher formations for what ever reasons would have been subject to scrutiny by a federation. The abuse would have surfaced much more early then it did, and again the treatment before during and after (Redress) that Biddiss and family was subject too would have never of happened.

    Food for thought
  10. I am coming to the sad realisation that the Army I proudly served in, like the Police Service I also served in, is becoming increasingly morally bankrupt.
  11. ViroBono

    ViroBono LE Moderator

    Possibly no coincidence that senior officers in both organisations seem increasingly unwilling to stand up to the politicians.
  12. Unwilling to stand up? or just mildy desperate to share the glory of saving a few bucks and therefore enhancing their own chances of an MBE.......
  13. Fascinating.

    Anti-Federation statements tend to fall into one of the following two categories, each of which contains an element of truth:

    1. "The chain of command does everything necessary to represent its personnel."

    2. "Personnel are being screwed by the system, but a Federation would make no difference".

    It would save a lot of time if we could arrange for these two camps to fight it out between themselves.

    It is becoming increasingly clear that those in favour of a Federation occupy the sensible, moderate, constructive position between these two extremes.
  14. A Federation would have recognised what was happening in the early days and brought it to the notice of our tax paying public. For my part, I believe that had a Federation been in existence at that time, that the MoD would never have instigated a Manning Control measure. Do not forget that this was a very underhand and unfair measure, amounting to constructive dismissal and 'theft' of pension rights.

    A Federation similar to the Police federation could have prevented that. A properly funded Federation would have been able to provide legal advice and representation for those who were subjected to Manning Control.

    The only way to prove that it would work and to protect the interests of Service Personnel, is to have a Federation. As a recognised Federation gained in strength through popular support by Servicee personnel, politicians and public, it would be in a position to challenge actions such as Manning Control before it got off the floor. A stromg Federation would be respected by the MoD, maybe not agreed with, but respected.
  15. Not at all mate. Sorry, I've since added to my post, I hadn't seen your question beforehand..

    In the case of Manning Control, let's view it for what it is. It was an unfair and immoral method of saving money at the cost of soldiers pensions. Would the Civil Service have stood for it? Would the Police Service have stood for it? You cannot treat people like that. It was done in an environment where there was no representation for the soldier and also where there was no outside attention, as the public were unaware of what was happening. If a Federation existed then the whole dubious concept of Manning Control would never have taken off as the MoD would be well aware that a Fedration would challenge it and publicise what was happening. Don't knock the power of the Press. If that sort of sh*t happened in the Police Service, you would see front page news. Why should you as a soldier go unprotected?