It IS Civil War.

#1
Bloodshed piles pressure on Iraqi PM, Bush

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Gunmen killed a much-loved Iraqi comedian on Monday as attacks and kidnaps of senior politicians and dozens of ordinary people prompted the defence minister to declare that Iraq was now in a "state of war".

As pressure mounts on U.S. President George W. Bush to try a new tack and allies urge him to approach Syria and Iran to help, Iraq said Syria's visiting foreign minister was about to restore diplomatic relations after a quarter-century of frost and the Iraqi president prepared to visit Iran this week.

The Iraqi government spokesman said talks with Syria's Walid al-Moualem had produced a deal to set up a joint security committee and boost trade and added "The first step is restoring diplomatic relations before the delegation leaves, God willing."


An Iraqi presidential spokesman confirmed that President Jalal Talabani had accepted a long-standing invitation from Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and said he would lead a delegation to Tehran on Saturday with a wide-ranging agenda.

He denied reports that Syrian President Bashar al-Assad was invited to the summit.

Damascus also said there were no such plans.

In Washington, a State Department spokesman said such talks had failed in the past to produce "concrete steps" by Syria or Iran, which the United States accuses of backing militants.

On a rare trip by any senior Arab official to U.S.-occupied Iraq, Moualem stressed he was not coming to please Washington: "I am nobody's godfather and am not a mediator for the United States ... I'm not here to please the United States
Continues here
 
#2
Well fcuk me. Even though it's not explicitly said, that's an admission of civil war. The defence minister also said "all measures are permissible" which I would normally take to mean martial law in the worst areas, but Iraq doesn't have enough of an army to even do that.
 
#3
What’s this PTP? More defeatist scaremongering?! Shame on you Sir, just because some native stumbles over his English does not mean that a little localized difficulty has blossomed into conflict.
 
#4
Absolutely A_J ,

I don't know what came over me to suggest the Defence Minister would have the first idea of what he was talking about.

President Bush has his own self said there isn't a civil war

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,1863851,00.html

President Bush yesterday denied that Iraq was plunging into civil war, just a day after the Pentagon painted a bloody picture of a nation caught in a spiral of increasing violence.
His statement appears to widen the gap between the political message coming from a White House concerned about upcoming mid-term elections and a military establishment fearful of getting caught in another Vietnam.

In his weekly radio address to the nation, Bush lashed out at critics of the war and portrayed the conflict in Iraq as an integral part of the war on terror. He said the country was not sliding into civil war.
....and you can take that to the bank.


Very exciteable these foreign types you know, I really think they need to drink more tea, and see this for what it is, just a little localised hi-jinks by some riff-raff.

Honestly , Arabs can be such drama queens.

But on a serious note, I expect a retraction or moderation of the comments in the next 48 hours...
 
#5
PartTimePongo said:
Absolutely A_J ,

I don't know what came over me to suggest the Defence Minister would have the first idea of what he was talking about.

President Bush has his own self said there isn't a civil war

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,1863851,00.html

President Bush yesterday denied that Iraq was plunging into civil war, just a day after the Pentagon painted a bloody picture of a nation caught in a spiral of increasing violence.
His statement appears to widen the gap between the political message coming from a White House concerned about upcoming mid-term elections and a military establishment fearful of getting caught in another Vietnam.

In his weekly radio address to the nation, Bush lashed out at critics of the war and portrayed the conflict in Iraq as an integral part of the war on terror. He said the country was not sliding into civil war.
....and you can take that to the bank.


Very exciteable these foreign types you know, I really think they need to drink more tea, and see this for what it is, just a little localised hi-jinks by some riff-raff.

Honestly , Arabs can be such drama queens.

But on a serious note, I expect a retraction or moderation of the comments in the next 48 hours...
Is this the same Bush that said iraq had WMD? it MUST be true then :D
 
#6
There is no doubt that the situation in Iraq is dire, and that it is of a sectarian nature. However, when Iraqi officials
.... say they pressed Moualem to prevent al Qaeda fighters crossing the border, cut off funding for Saddam's diehard Baathist followers and stop protecting his former aides
it points to something more than an inhouse problem. When the majority of the mix is foriegn fighters facilitated by the international Baathist party who also are keeping the home grown insurgency going, it is both simplistic and wrong to label it a civil war
 
#7
PartTimePongo said:
Absolutely A_J ,

I don't know what came over me to suggest the Defence Minister would have the first idea of what he was talking about.
Come, come, Dear Boy.

Having not the slightest idea about military matters in general, and what's actually going on around you, does not preclude one from being appointed Defence Minister.

Evidence, you cry!

Take a look back at a succession of HMG Defence Ministers... How many have denied overstretch and its corrosive effects again and again?

:roll:
 
#8
You make a good point Merkator.

Though I suspect this Defence Minister might know a bit , what with having to DDCO to get to the newsagents in the morning?

"Just nipping out for the papers and some milk dear, 5 rounds rapid if you'd be so kind?"
 
#9
The defence minister is Abdel Qader Jassim, who happened to be a Lt. General under Saddam (though I think he got sacked in the '90s). So slightly more knowledgable than the average defence minister. (Doesn't mean he's competant though)
 
#10
U.N. says Iraqi deaths hit new high

By Claudia Parsons

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Iraqi deaths hit a new high in October and 100,000 people are fleeing abroad every month to escape worsening violence that is segregating the country on sectarian lines, a U.N. report said on Wednesday.

Painting a grim picture of a population caught in the cross-fire between insurgents, militias, criminal gangs and security forces, the bimonthly report put civilian deaths in October at 3,709 -- 120 a day and up from 3,345 in September.

Under growing pressure from an impatient Bush administration to do more to curb the violence, the Iraqi government accused the United Nations of exaggerating the death toll to "mislead the world". U.N. officials said they stood by their figures.

"The real figure is a quarter of that," Health Minister Ali al-Shimeri said on state television on Wednesday night. But police said they found 59 bodies in Baghdad alone on Wednesday, the apparent victims of death squads.

The White House announced that U.S. President George W. Bush would meet Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki in Jordan next week to discuss transferring greater security responsibility to U.S.-trained Iraqi forces, a key demand of the Iraqi government.

British forces could hand over the key southern oil city of Basra, which generates almost all of Iraq's revenues, and the rest of the province to Iraqi forces by next spring, British Foreign Secretary Margaret Beckett said in London.

Though plagued by factional fighting, mainly Shi'ite Basra has largely escaped the sectarian violence ravaging much of Iraq. The U.N. report said nearly 420,000 Iraqis had fled their homes since the February bombing of a Shi'ite shrine triggered a surge in tit-for-tat attacks.

As well as those displaced internally, nearly 100,000 people were fleeing to Syria and Jordan each month -- proportionally equivalent to 1 million Americans emigrating each month.
Continues here
 
#11
As another part of his post-election cabinet reshuffle, President Bush has announced a successor to Karen Hughes as Undersecretary of State for Public Diplomacy:

 
#12
The Health Minister makes his statement yesterday , and today?

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Guerrilla fighters attacked an Iraqi government ministry in central Baghdad on Thursday with mortars and machineguns in one of the most dramatic shows of force by militants in the capital since the U.S. invasion.

A deputy minister in the Shi'ite-run Health Ministry and a police source said about 30 unidentified gunmen were involved.

"Terrorists are attacking the building with mortars, machineguns and we can even see snipers. Any employee who leaves the building will be killed," Deputy Health Minister Hakim al-Zamily said from his office.

An Interior Ministry source said gunmen had surrounded the ministry, north of central Baghdad on the mainly Shi'ite eastern bank of the Tigris, and were clashing with Iraqi security forces.

Some casualties had been taken to hospital, he said, and three mortar round landed in the ministry compound.

The source said the gunmen had attempted to break into the ministry compound but had been driven back. Zamily complained that army commanders had not responded to calls for help.
http://www.swissinfo.org/eng/intern...l?siteSect=143&sid=7285810&cKey=1164290072000
 
#13
.and to further underline it......

Baghdad blasts 'kill 132 people'

At least 132 people have been killed in a series of blasts in the Shia Sadr City area of the Iraqi capital, police and medical sources say.
Details are still sketchy, but a further 200 people were reportedly wounded in three car bombs and at least one mortar blast.

In one attack a car exploded at a food market which is a regular target of mainly Sunni Muslim insurgents.

Elsewhere, gunmen attacked the health ministry, sparking battles with guards.

In Sadr City, a car exploded in the Jamila food market, where eyewitnesses told reporters burned bodies and human flesh littered the ground.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6177356.stm

That's 2 attacks against Al-Sadr's interests in less than 24 hours...
 
#15
I cant see how this isnt a civil war, the sunni and shia groupings are executing each other, etnically cleansing their towns/suburbs, bombing, mortering and sometimes having running gun battles with each other.

There may be some outside influences but its essentially (80%+) Iraqi V Iraqi this tells me its a civil war - the domestic death toll tells me its a civil war - the increasing conflicts between government agencies of different tribal backgrounds tells me its a civil war. The only thing that doesnt say its a civil war is the politically inspired 'no-bad-news' in the US and some parts of the UK.

Ratcatcher
 
#17
By who?

The Sunni or the Iraqi Government?
 
#18
Sunni's. The Iraqi PM was in Sadr's hip pocket. With the kidnapping of the Crescent Security contractors the gloves are off and the PM cant run interference. US and IA forces looking for the contractors have really hit Sadr's militia pretty hard. The process continues.
 
#19
Gen. tomahawk6 said:
The attacks today were aimed at Sadr's power base as he is felt to be a threat.
Threat to who?

Do this mean you agree or disagree that it is a 'civil war'?

Or is it just another of your pointless, ill-informed, badly thought-out predictions with the sole intent of raising your post count?
 

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