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Issue over NON ISSUE kit

should you have to wear all issue kit for insurance


  • Total voters
    3
#1
we have recently been told at our unit that we can not wear assault vests or chest webbing for training purposes.

this was not too bad what they are also telling us is due to a build up on field training (non Inf unit) that all soldiers must carry webbing & daysacks on a cft not a bergan.

the reason behind the issue webbing is down to Health & Safety, if you cut yourself, catch fire, or some else hurts them self why you are wearing the non issued kit you are not insured & can be sued.

i find this really really hard to beleive, ther worst thing is we can wear daysacks that are not issued as long as they are green or dpm.

This ruling seems to smite a bit to me i think it is just someone trying to take control of kit used thats all if so tell us so. when you think of the extra kit the lads buy are we getting to politically correct for own goods

Whats next
Dont like issue fleece so you buy a softie not insured ?
have to buy a regimental stable belt not issued not isured ?
buy a sqaudron or regimental t shirt not issued not insured ?
Buy a smoch not issued not insured ?
dont wear issue socks buy better walking socks not issued not insured ?

OK so i might be going a bit over the top but it just seems really realy fishy to me !!!!!!!!!

so discuss

Watto
 
#2
IN this compensation culture we live in, then its perfectly right.

In an ideal world, you would get issued with all the kit you could possibly want, however, in the grand scheme of things, most of the kit you get issued is good and can be resupplied.

However its how far they take this that could make it unbearable. What about that bottle of tabasco sauce you take for your meals, you fall over and it breaks in the process, your oppo puts his hand in it whilst dragging your ass back to your feet and then rubs his face getting tabasco in his eyes. Could technically be your fault for blinding him!
 
#3
Do you happen to have a new PSI/OC/CO per chance?

I know of another unit where the OC decided that only kit issued by that unit was to be worn...regardles if it was issued to them by another unit in or out of ops....but then he was a prize one c0ck and the furthest he had deployed to was, I think, the NAAFI.

I can understand the idea of the insurance point, but by wearing different kit, you are effectively giving up that insurance umbrella and it has always been tacitly acknowledged by all.

I would have thought day sacks are actually dangerous on a CFT as they do not have lumbar supports ala bergans - anyway, it is up to the PTI to decide what kit they wear.

It sounds to me like you have a new bod in place who is trying to stamp his authority on his (or her) new trainset.
 
#4
Best you turn up without your spectacles and watch then...

If anyone tries any 'Ooh it's Health and Safety', demand to see the risk assessment.

And if you get any crap about insurance, ask for the insurance certificate.

msr
 
#7
As far as not wearing non-issue boots? I think if the British Army did that, then Lowa would go out of business!

I can understand the insurance issue if you don’t wear issue kit, but surly on ops, the enemy is going to be a little more cunning than a spot of 'bergan sores' from a non-issued one?
 
#8
MightyBigEgo said:
Do you happen to have a new PSI/OC/CO per chance?

I know of another unit where the OC decided that only kit issued by that unit was to be worn...regardles if it was issued to them by another unit in or out of ops....but then he was a prize one c0ck and the furthest he had deployed to was, I think, the NAAFI.

I can understand the idea of the insurance point, but by wearing different kit, you are effectively giving up that insurance umbrella and it has always been tacitly acknowledged by all.

I would have thought day sacks are actually dangerous on a CFT as they do not have lumbar supports ala bergans - anyway, it is up to the PTI to decide what kit they wear.

It sounds to me like you have a new bod in place who is trying to stamp his authority on his (or her) new trainset.
Whats even better is where you have a CO decree issue only and then rock up in a para smock and junglies
 
#9
watto135 said:
ther worst thing is we can wear daysacks that are not issued as long as they are green or dpm.
I don't think they are allowed either.

have no problems with it really, for the role we have - I don't understand why we have webbing anyway (or rifles for that matter)
 
#10
msr said:
Best you turn up without your spectacles and watch then...
Both of which can and should be issued to those that need them. Whilst the watch might look quite cool, the spectacles definitely don't, so perhaps sticking to your rights would be a Pyrrhic victory

msr said:
If anyone tries any 'Ooh it's Health and Safety', demand to see the risk assessment.
I have no doubt whatsoever, that a "safety case" for every single piece of issue kit can be produced from somewhere in the depths of MOD.Don't forget that the Army, as an employer (even though it pretends not to be for the purposes of TA Pensions) is obliged under H&S legislation to provide any necessary Personal Protection Equipment, in exactly the same way as a civilian employer - and arguably your issue uniform and equipment is just that. Additionally, interfering with H&S eqpt is actually a criminal offence. Sorry if I sound like Keith Lard off Phoenix Nights but the Army sent me on the course and I now have an enormous certificate and a penchant for wearing a white hard hat, carrying a clip board and shaking my head at even the most inocuous activities.


Anyway it's all quite easy really. We have uniform in order to dress uniformly and Standard Operational Procedures in order to do things in a standard way - that's how the Army works. Soldiers(and officers) will always try and buck the system by having the world's biggest collection of ammo pouches or wearing a SAS windproof to turn the tap on in a MBLU or whatever - but it's actually just the same as the kid at school who insisted on having the biggest possible knot with the least amount of tie below it - they are just trying to be different.

The only part of the original whinge which is actually valid is being forced to wear a non-issue daysack for CFT. The Army cannot force you to buy anything and I am sure the RSM will be extremely understanding when you tell him so.
 
#11
I would definatly NOT want to do a CFT in a daysack or for that matter anything other than a current issue infantry bergan.

Just turn up with your bergan and take the bollocking, and when being bollocked remark that when the TA pays you enough to go out and buy a fancy new daysack for one weekend you will buy it.

What are they going to do, send you home?
 
#12
wait_out_131 said:
As far as not wearing non-issue boots? I think if the British Army did that, then Lowa would go out of business!

I can understand the insurance issue if you don’t wear issue kit, but surly on ops, the enemy is going to be a little more cunning than a spot of 'bergan sores' from a non-issued one?
The point with issued kit is that on Ops you will get the same/similar kit replcing broken,damaged or destroyed kit. In some cases with modular kit, you amy only get one piece (ie. the broken bit) Clearly if your Bergen is not issued, the issue replacement kikt may not solve your problem. Of course this is an argument ath only has real weight on extended Ops (we dont really do those) where your kit might get worn out. The other point is one of uniformity to ensure that we all look the same and that if captured you look like a simple tom, having all the gucci gear might be hard to explain to an Iranian interegator, but the only the Navy get caught!!
 
#13
msr said:
Best you turn up without your spectacles and watch then...

If anyone tries any 'Ooh it's Health and Safety', demand to see the risk assessment.

And if you get any crap about insurance, ask for the insurance certificate.

msr
There is the difference between the TA and The Reg Army. That attitude may get you somewhere in a TA Bn.

I'm sure if a junior soldier "demanded" to see a risk assessment he'd have extras until the end of time. Atleast he'd get told to fcuk off for being gobby.

Maybe i am biassed because i'm allowed to wear non issue kit but you have been told what to do and what to wear. Stop bitching and do as your told!
 
#14
watto135 said:
the reason behind the issue webbing is down to Health & Safety, if you cut yourself, catch fire, or some else hurts them self why you are wearing the non issued kit you are not insured & can be sued.
Watto
This insurance thingy is begining to bug me, so could someone tell me how its possible to get insurance for civilians to go on helicopters, shoot rifles, or come adventure taining with us however they cant get insurance for a soldier to wear a diffrent set of boots on exercise?

Or are people just knee jerking and and putting up the unbrellas without thinking
 
#15
Badcrow , I hear what you are saying , and I wouldn't pish about asking for risk assesment forms and all that.

But I would wear the issue kit and take a bollocking for it, simply because the infantry bergan is very good, the only thing that compares that is non-issue costs a fortune. Ok, fine of your a regular, you will use it all the time and get value for money out of your non-issue berghaus bergan , the problem is some PSI's think that the TA soldier should have all the gucci kit in the world and can't get there head round the fact that a TA soldier is not going to fork out hundreds of pounds for kit he is barely going to use.

I would take the bollocking and the sh!t that comes with it and wear what was issued. More and more stuff seems to be creeping into kit lists lately that costs a lot of money and isn't issued.
 
#16
Oneshot said:
IN this compensation culture we live in, then its perfectly right.

In an ideal world, you would get issued with all the kit you could possibly want, however, in the grand scheme of things, most of the kit you get issued is good and can be resupplied.

However its how far they take this that could make it unbearable. What about that bottle of tabasco sauce you take for your meals, you fall over and it breaks in the process, your oppo puts his hand in it whilst dragging your ass back to your feet and then rubs his face getting tabasco in his eyes. Could technically be your fault for blinding him!
I disagree, but you do accept a reasonable responsibility for any gucci kit you have. You can't expect the army to be responsible for kit they haven't given you.

But are you really worrying about the risks of, say, burning your mouth on food that's too hot from your own gucci mess tins? If so, I think that's your problem, not the army's.

However, in agreement with Oneshot, if you're worried - stick to issue. It's not crap we're given, and it's probably better than any previous generation of soldiers in this land, and certainly better than most other armies.

FF.
 
#17
I am still trying to get my head around why someone would want you to where a civi daysack for a CFT, this has got to be a wind-up.

If I was you I'd go out and buy the gayest fluresant pinkest daysack I could find, preferably with fluffy bits on, see how they like that. :lol:

one quick google later;

 
#18
watto135 said:
its a new TM i think
Maybe but why are people buying GUCCI kit its not as if the training demands it. It may not be insurance thats prompted this move.

Last weekend I saw people kitted out to storm an embassy and others who looked as if they were checking into a 5 star hotel.
 
#19
crazyfool said:
This insurance thingy is begining to bug me, so could someone tell me how its possible to get insurance for civilians to go on helicopters, shoot rifles, or come adventure taining with us however they cant get insurance for a soldier to wear a diffrent set of boots on exercise?

Or are people just knee jerking and and putting up the unbrellas without thinking
The MOD does not have an insurance policy - everything is paid out of a central fund which is set aside to cover insurance costs.

It is possible for a civilian to go on a military helicopter, so long as the MOD are prepared to underwrite the risk of something happening to him due to their negligence - nothing to do with insurance policies as any claim will be met from the pre-arranged fund. It is the same for military vehicles (the MOD pay a claims handler, but there is no seperate policy for each vehicle).

As for kit - the TA unit concerned is correct to a point. If you are injured due to someone elses negligence, and the injury that you sustain would not have been as severe if you were wearing the kit that you were issued as opposed to the non-issued stuff that you have bought, and it was reasonable in the circumstances to be wearing that issued kit and you stand without a substantive reason why you should not be bound by that rule - then the compensation you receive will be reduced on the grounds of contributory negligence to the extent that your use of kit has added to the injury you have suffered.

Easy.
 
#20
who_cares.... said:
msr said:
If anyone tries any 'Ooh it's Health and Safety', demand to see the risk assessment.
I have no doubt whatsoever, that a "safety case" for every single piece of issue kit can be produced from somewhere in the depths of MOD.Don't forget that the Army, as an employer (even though it pretends not to be for the purposes of TA Pensions) is obliged under H&S legislation to provide any necessary Personal Protection Equipment, in exactly the same way as a civilian employer - and arguably your issue uniform and equipment is just that. Additionally, interfering with H&S eqpt is actually a criminal offence. Sorry if I sound like Keith Lard off Phoenix Nights but the Army sent me on the course and I now have an enormous certificate and a penchant for wearing a white hard hat, carrying a clip board and shaking my head at even the most inocuous activities.
Let me make myself a bit clearer - it's those people who hide behind Health and Safety, as a cover for being lazy who can be rooted out with a request for the risk assessment.

msr
 

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