Israeli soldiers admit deliberately killing Gaza civilians

#2
The Israelis probably have more black spots on their record than any Western nation these days when it comes to atrocities and killing non combatants, but I don't think this is the norm for Israeli soldiers.

The Israelis have a conscripted military of ordinary people. They're not monsters who kill people for the hell of it, regardless of how the international media portrays them. And while I don't condone this particular group of soldiers actions, it's a bit hard for us to judge them when Gaza elects a terrorist organization.

When the ordinary people in Gaza elect such an organization and condone the murder of innocent Israelis, it's difficult to feel their plight when the Israelis give them a dose of their own medicine. Almost all these conflicts these days start with katyusha rockets launched in Israel. Also consider this, even a Palestinian doctor reported the death toll was inflated, and that most of those killed were in the age of 17-23, with ties to Hamas.
 
#4
Will any other nation do anything about it? Not a chance. Therefore they will do it again next time. Real politik.
 
#5
These 'innocent Israelis' would be the ones who ethnically cleansed the Palestinians out of their own land, right?

Most countries are built on stolen land. But not within living memory. That's why this war still has many decades to run.

Unless the Chinese decide to take over the Middle East by riding the anti-American tsunami that Israeli has stored up over the last sixty years.
 
#6
The testimonies include a description by an infantry squad leader of an incident where an IDF sharpshooter mistakenly shot a Palestinian mother and her two children. "There was a house with a family inside .... We put them in a room. Later we left the house and another platoon entered it, and a few days after that there was an order to release the family. They had set up positions upstairs. There was a sniper position on the roof," the soldier said.
"The platoon commander let the family go and told them to go to the right. One mother and her two children didn't understand and went to the left, but they forgot to tell the sharpshooter on the roof they had let them go and it was okay, and he should hold his fire and he ... he did what he was supposed to, like he was following his orders."
According to the squad leader: "The sharpshooter saw a woman and children approaching him, closer than the lines he was told no one should pass. He shot them straight away. In any case, what happened is that in the end he killed them.
As reported here...
and here...
 
#7
The Israeli government has seemingly always backed its military no matter what's supposed to have been going on. I am more surprised that sources within the military have lifted the lid on what's allegedly been done, not that it's actually allegedly been done.

Does that make sense?
 
#8
I do not understand why the UN is not intervening such horror attacks? The UN courts need to take a stand on the issue, nothing much was done even the UN building in Gaza where people of Gaza took shelter, was bombed by Israel somtime back
 
#9
jane100 said:
I do not understand why the UN is not intervening such horror attacks? The UN courts need to take a stand on the issue, nothing much was done even the UN building in Gaza where people of Gaza took shelter, was bombed by Israel somtime back
Because they don't have jurisdiction in Israel. Any serious attempt at trying to censure them at the Security Council would be vetoed by the US. Even if they did manage to get anyone to court the chance of getting evidence that isn't tainted by propaganda from either side would be quite unlikely.

Part of the reason that these stories have come to light is that they have been given anonymously. I doubt that any of those would give statements against their countrymen to a formal investigation.
 
#10
I love the way this thread already contrasts to the "Is the BBC too Pro-Palestinian" thread.

A pox on both their houses.
 
#12
Israel has a lot to answer for but the double standards displayed is shocking.

Racist, terrorist fuckwits are the first words that spring to mind.... but maybe I didn't read the news for the last 60 years..... :roll:

Although I'm sure the moderates will bring it to my attention.....

Dons tin foil hat and teddy bear awaiting dullards 'the jews are all evil' brigade.
 
#14
ALVIN said:
Hey - Ord Sgt, Those tits are funking fantastic ! :D
I know, but I stole them from ScaleyAlbereto. :)
 
#15
Taz_786 said:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article5939611.ece

Interested in hearing what all the Israeli apologists have to say about this...not that it's any surprise of course...
So the testimony boils down to 3 Israeli Soldiers stories?

Soldier "A"
A family was told to leave its home that soldiers occupied from a platoon that the witness isn't part of. Platoon commander asked the family to leave and turn right, they misunderstood and turned left. The gunner didn't know that the family is coming to the closed area and he was told to fire at anyone that enters it. The gunner shot and killed the civilians.

So wouldnt this be called "Hearsay" evidence since it wasnt the Soldiers Platoon and he didnt witness the shooting?

Or have I missed something here? I'm trying to understand the conditions at the time of the incidents.
 
#16
One is unacceptable GB. We're the civilised nations. We hold ourselves to higher account, and for good reason.
 
#17
Its unacceptable and individual occurences should be punished. If its endemic then it should be rooted out.

That being said, Israel is nothing like the worst country at this. The Gaza Strip is much worse in terms of causing civilian fatalities through Hamas rockets. There are plenty of other examples which don't seem to make the media every day.

Domovoy, what planet are you on? How can Israel not be zionist? Its purpose is to be a state for the Jews and a place to avoid the persecution that almost every state in the world has levelled at us at one point or another.
 
#18
The Gaza Strip/Hamas do not portray themselves as a nation operating by "Western" standards when it comes to the LOAC.

And the '3' individuals don't portray these as isolated incidents either. They portray them as accepted and the norm.

It remains to see if Israeli SIB go sweeping in to the Academy in the next week.
 
#19
PartTimePongo said:
One is unacceptable GB. We're the civilised nations. We hold ourselves to higher account, and for good reason.
I do understand that

I also understand that Historically no Army on Earth has been completely innocent of such things either.

My Army was involved in My Lai. From the first week of Basic Training it was drilled into us to never follow such an order as Lt. Calley gave. Made all the more impression on us by the fact Our Senior Drill Sergeant had been a PFC in Calleys company at the time in a Different Platoon.

I'm not apologizing for the IDF, nor the US Army, and not attempting to impugne the British Army either. But the sad fact is war being chaotic, incidents like this will never be stopped while a human element is behind the decision to pull the triggers.

I just want to see the actual transcripts eventually of what was said, so there is no Confusion. To Me that sniper incident seems to be legally hearsay, not Eyewitness testimony.
 
#20
Just to clarify GB , my use of 'We' meant Britain and the USA.
 

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