Israeli-Arab dreams to be IAF pilot

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by KGB_resident, Mar 21, 2006.

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    I fancy what he would make on his plane if it would happen.

    Who knows? There is a lot of Druzes and Bedouins in IDF. Step by step demographic weapon would lead to Israeli membership in Organisation of Islamic Conference.
  2. Can't blame them for saying no.
  3. :lol: :lol: That would be the day!

    FYI - It is not only volunteer Israeli arabs that are excluded from such prestigous courses and units on security grounds, but also foreigners who volunteer for service. You can have impeccable credentials, but the highly security sensitive positions / units are all off limits.
  4. One man = one chance

    I do not blame the IDA for not allowing him to become a pilot. After all we spend time in Iraq in order to support a Police force in waiting?
  5. Why not? It’s racial discrimination isn’t it?

    They refused to give the lad a chance, despite him being “loyal to the State”, simply because he’s an Arab and a Muslim. Perhaps they should be honest and change their name from Israeli Air Force to Jewish Air Force.
  6. Who 'says', he's loyal to the state, dont the Israelis have vetting then? After all, he might well end up carrying a significant bomb load.
  7. Go and put a complaint in to the CRE!! Fortunately, the Israeli defence establishment has not been too affected by PC so far (although it is going that way). Like I said, previously it is not only Israeli arabs who cannot get onto these prestigous courses due to background.

    Chinggis - Israel is a Jewish state, that is what it was founded for, with minorities within it. These minorities also serve with honour. Arabs and muslims serve within the IDF, if they were unacceptable they would not be allowed to serve, they also receive equal treatment in service and have attained command rank.

    Best of luck to this kid, he can show his mettle in the Armour Corps.
  8. An officer in the Israeli Air Force says so. The report says:

    IDF Major (res.) Michael, the youth's instructor at the civilian pilot course, who is himself a former combat pilot, even sent a reference letter to the IDF, praised the young pilot's performance and recommended the Air Force welcome him to its ranks, adding that he was convinced his student was "loyal to the State."

    I’m sure they do have vetting, but this is not a vetting decision, it’s a policy decision – only Jews can be pilots.

    He might, or he might have ended up flying a Hercules of a transport helicopter. The point is, they have no intention of trusting him with “a significant bomb load” because he’s not Jewish. Imagine the outcry if the RAF had a policy of not recruiting Jewish pilots because they didn't trust them.

    It seems the Israelis would trust him with a significant load of tank ammunition though. I fail to see the difference.

    Exactly – and that’s the crux of the problem. Israel exists for the benefit of Jews, irrespective of their birth nationality. It should be a state for Israelis, irrespective of their religion. In this context, here’s another quote from the guy’s flying instructor:

    "There is no other way but to include all the State's citizens in running the State and protecting it. We don’t see them as part of the State today, but a large majority of them do see themselves as part of this country," he said.
  9. Only citizens who are beyond any security doubts can be pilots. The IAF will never take any chances in allowing any form of security risk, would the RAF?

    The kid could be on the level, this does not mean in the future that he could be 'got to' to divulge information.

    Well he will have 3 others in the tank with him to make sure he does not go it alone!! Why does it have to be an issue of firepower he can get control of? Again, allowing him to serve in the IAF allows him access to more sensitive security material then he would be exposed to in the Armour Corps.

    Israel is a state for Israelis, the country is largely secular, many people identify themselves as Israelis not Jews, the Druze class themselves as Israelis, etc.

    Unfortunately a significant proportion of the Israeli arab population does not see itself as anything when it comes to Israel. They have no love of the country or the people but gratefully receive the benefit of the Israeli economy and education system. The instructor was "convinced" that the kid would be loyal to the State, this is a personal opinion, not conclusive procedural security vetting.
    The reason his face in the article is covered is to prevent any comeback from his own people as they are likely to be prone to extreme discrimination if they have found one of their own wanting to join the IDF!!
  10. The RAF does not have a policy that considers a proportion of the British population to be a security risk based only on their ethnicity or religion.

    If that is the case, why does Israel allow foreign born Jews the right to become Israel citizens, simply on the basis of their religion?

    The guys flying instructor, an Israeli officer - and obviously a Jewish one or he would not have been a pilot - said that a significant proportion of Israeli Jews don't consider Israeli Arabs as being a part of the state, but that "a large majority of them do see themselves as part of this country". His words. He probably has a different opinion of Palestinians, but he’s talking about a citizen of Israel who just happens not to be a Jew. Clearly you disagree with him, as is your right, but I wonder why your view is the opposite of his.

    Perhaps so, but that would also apply if the joined an armoured regiment, the infantry, engineers, transport …. It is not specific to the policy of the Israeli Air Force.
  11. The RAF is considerably luckier then the IAF in that respect. As pointed out, the IDF issue is not about an arab muslim citizen joining the services but what they can do within them. You keep pointing out that Jews can serve anywhere within the IDF, I can categorically tell you that this is not the case due to security issues also.
    Clearly there were security issues with this arab volunteer joining the IAF.

    There have been numerous incidents of terror groups emanating from the Israeli arab population. These are not isolated incidents. There stance is definitely not pro-Israel, hence the rarity of them volunteering to serve.

    My point was that the Israeli arabs do not align themselves with Israel, they do not see themselves a part of the country, and they bring with them more security issues for Israel then they solve.
  12. A sweeping generalisation that flies in direct contradiction to everything we know about this kid. I am somewhat glad to see that, in the course of his last few posts, Arik at least is willing to acknowledge that Israel is an Apartheid state.
  13. Actually, I didn't say that, I just made that point that restrictions are applied to Arabs.

    Clearly the IAF consider being an Arab to be a security issue, even if that Arab is an Israeli citizen.

    All the Israeli Arabs? The officer in question takes a different view.
  14. In the UK we can't even trust certain members of ethnic minorities, although born here of parents who were probably born here, to support the England Cricket Team!! :) Maybe Arik has a point notwithstanding certain unpleasant aspects of Israeli society.
  15. What do you know about this kid? Does your 9 years service (albeit as an officer) in the RAF looking after a gate, give you a good insight into pilot vetting in the IAF? Or does your PhD give you that power?

    Ah, the patronising Crab, was wondering when you would appear. Where did I acknowledge that Israel had apartheid policies? Are you going to start some more Israel bashing?