Israel prepares future British soldiers

#1
http://www.newstatesman.com/200709030003/

Marva, run by the Educational and Youth Corps of the Israel Defence Force and conducted entirely in Hebrew, simulates the basic training of Israeli conscripts for 18-28 year old members of the Diaspora. Dressed in boots and olive fatigues, and obliged to carry an M16 assault rifle at all times, school leavers on gap years do push ups in the dust, perform night marches with laden stretchers, maintain civil defence shelters, fire machine guns at paper figures and simulate military manoeuvres, as well as taking classes in Jewish identity and the history and values of the IDF. Karaoke and dance-offs also feature.
...
...increasing numbers of British Jews, through youth groups such as RSY Netzer and Federation of Zionist Youth, are signing up to one of the four 120-strong sessions held every year. One half are girls, and large numbers come from public schools in Manchester and North London.
...
Participants deny that the course was overtly anti-Palestinian. "I never heard that sort of comment from an official source – although there were some very right wing individuals taking part," says Mark Fitch, a Manchester student who took the course last year. "There was a lot of debate about the IDF, and whilst obviously by going on Marva they implicitly endorsed the army, a lot of people said that they were torn about using guns and running about."
...
Most recently, British 16 and 17 year olds have been able to take part in Gadna, the week-long course taken by Israeli schoolchildren in preparation for military service and which has recently come under fire for becoming increasingly militaristic. "Shooting an M16 gun… physically lying on the land of Israel, learning how to defend it, gave me an immense sense of pride" writes a breathless Aimee Riese, a London schoolgirl and recent participant, in the Jewish Chronicle.
So I expect that Algeria, Pakistan and other countries would prepare future British soldiers.
 

chrisg46

LE
Book Reviewer
#2
Jewish british perhaps? Jews of any nation state are entitled to join IDF, always have been, whats the story?
 

Nehustan

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#3
I must just interject here that 'public school' here means state school Serge. Public School in the UK means originally company ran (i.e. livery companies) from the City. There aren't that many Jews in the old school.
 
#4
Sergey.... (British) Jewish teenagers taking part in some IDF sponsored Zion-fest can hardly be "preparing future British soldiers" now can it?
 
#5
chrisg46 said:
Jewish british perhaps? Jews of any nation state are entitled to join IDF, always have been, whats the story?
So Britons of Pakistani or Arab descent could visit training camps in foregn countries. I fancy they would return enlightend in some matters.
 
#6
DavetheApe said:
Sergey.... (British) Jewish teenagers taking part in some IDF sponsored Zion-fest can hardly be "preparing future British soldiers" now can it?
As I understand the situation the vast majority of British Jews prefer to stay home, to stay in the UK. Positive impressions about military camps in Israel could encourage (at least some of them) to serve in HM armed forces. It is that simple.
 
#7
Nehustan said:
I must just interject here that 'public school' here means state school Serge. Public School in the UK means originally company ran (i.e. livery companies) from the City. There aren't that many Jews in the old school.
I went to a suburban London public school (livery company, too) which was Jew-central. I pretended to be Jewish myself for a few years to skip the tedium of chapel: Jewish assembly involving Woody Allen films or elderly Hassidic rabbis combining supposed prophetic codes within the Torah with shtetl classics on the violin :D . NW London catchment area, old boy... lots of my peers did their voluntary IDF service... I'd hazard that my old alma mater was the London one the NS referred to.

If they'd been Pakistani-British kids off doing training with the Frontier Corps in Deraa or Peshawar I imagine we'd look a bit more askance at it..
 

Nehustan

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On ROPs
#8
KGB_resident said:
chrisg46 said:
Jewish british perhaps? Jews of any nation state are entitled to join IDF, always have been, whats the story?
So Britons of Pakistani or Arab descent could visit training camps in foregn countries. I fancy they would return enlightend in some matters.

They might be advised, in my humble opinion, to take a walk down the Thames and ponder a job in the city. As they proceed easterly from Cleopatra's needle close to the Temple tube station, the benches change from sphinx to...

[align=center]
[/align]

[align=center]as the saying goes 'trade is better than the market place'. Seems the IDF are quite late on the scene...[/align]

[align=center] :twisted: [/align]
 

Nehustan

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#9
Rumpelstiltskin said:
Nehustan said:
I must just interject here that 'public school' here means state school Serge. Public School in the UK means originally company ran (i.e. livery companies) from the City. There aren't that many Jews in the old school.
I went to a suburban London public school (livery company, too) which was Jew-central. I pretended to be Jewish myself for a few years to skip the tedium of chapel: Jewish assembly involving Woody Allen films or elderly Hassidic rabbis combining supposed prophetic codes within the Torah with shtetl classics on the violin :D . NW London catchment area, old boy... lots of my peers did their voluntary IDF service... I'd hazard that my old alma mater was the London one the NS referred to.

If they'd been Pakistani-British kids off doing training with the Frontier Corps in Deraa or Peshawar I imagine we'd look a bit more askance at it..
Rumple was it near Pinner/Moor Park?...lol... if it was we're cousins...
 
#10
Nehustan said:
Rumpelstiltskin said:
Nehustan said:
I must just interject here that 'public school' here means state school Serge. Public School in the UK means originally company ran (i.e. livery companies) from the City. There aren't that many Jews in the old school.
I went to a suburban London public school (livery company, too) which was Jew-central. I pretended to be Jewish myself for a few years to skip the tedium of chapel: Jewish assembly involving Woody Allen films or elderly Hassidic rabbis combining supposed prophetic codes within the Torah with shtetl classics on the violin :D . NW London catchment area, old boy... lots of my peers did their voluntary IDF service... I'd hazard that my old alma mater was the London one the NS referred to.

If they'd been Pakistani-British kids off doing training with the Frontier Corps in Deraa or Peshawar I imagine we'd look a bit more askance at it..
Rumple was it near Pinner/Moor Park?...lol... if it was we're cousins...
No, not them, the other one... Elstree.
 

Nehustan

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On ROPs
#11
Ahhh...k...I went to the sister school up north (i.e. same livery), and while we of course had Jewish pupils, I'd hardly say in was Jew central, you must have been lucky with early exposure to multicultural Britain (***Chicken soup anyone :twisted: ***). Of course there are Jewish pupils as the colour of their money is as good as anyones to buy an education. They were certainly a minority in our school, probably as many Asian students as Jews.
 
#12
KGB_resident said:
So I expect that Algeria, Pakistan and other countries would prepare future British soldiers.
What, to fight for the IDF?
 

Nehustan

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#13
Bravo_Bravo said:
KGB_resident said:
So I expect that Algeria, Pakistan and other countries would prepare future British soldiers.
What, to fight for the IDF?
Actually ironically I think that quite a few ex IDF who go on to BethShin-ShinBeth/Mossad set up their legends in the 'maghrib'; I'm told that Tel Aviv University's Islamic studies course is one of the best in the world, just what a mole would require to have believable Islamist credentials/lip service....
 
B

Biscuits_AB

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#14
DavetheApe said:
Sergey.... (British) Jewish teenagers taking part in some IDF sponsored Zion-fest can hardly be "preparing future British soldiers" now can it?
I don't know, that 'dance off' thing sounds ace. Git dahn!
 
#15
Sergey, they are far more likely to go to Israel proper and join the IDF. If they are committed enough to go and do a IDF "taster" course, motivated by their commitment to Israel and Judaism, they are hardly likely to to beat a path to the Army Careers office here to join us bunch of 'eathens are they????
 

Nehustan

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On ROPs
#16
DavetheApe said:
Sergey, they are far more likely to go to Israel proper and join the IDF. If they are committed enough to go and do a IDF "taster" course, motivated by their commitment to Israel and Judaism, they are hardly likely to to beat a path to the Army Careers office here to join us bunch of 'eathens are they????

To be honest it would depend on how religious they were; secular, reformed or orthodox. The Talmud and thus the 'Goyem' type edicts would be more common amongst the orthodox I'd imagine, and they are exempt (tho' more are serving in the IDF I hear) from IDF service.
 
#17
DavetheApe said:
Sergey, they are far more likely to go to Israel proper and join the IDF. If they are committed enough to go and do a IDF "taster" course, motivated by their commitment to Israel and Judaism, they are hardly likely to to beat a path to the Army Careers office here to join us bunch of 'eathens are they????
You suggest that some Britons more committed to the foreign state, to foreign interests. And it is true for the people that is living in Great Britain for centuries. So how can one expect that other national minorities would be British patriots soon?
 
#18
Only a small number (......0 of a %) of diaspora Jewish youth will ever do Marva or the week long Gadna (cadet) course. It prepares participants for nothing, other then an insight into the IDF and is an educational tool more then one with an end goal military purpose. May be 1 in 10 on Marva opt to stay on and enlist.
 

Nehustan

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#19
KGB_resident said:
DavetheApe said:
Sergey, they are far more likely to go to Israel proper and join the IDF. If they are committed enough to go and do a IDF "taster" course, motivated by their commitment to Israel and Judaism, they are hardly likely to to beat a path to the Army Careers office here to join us bunch of 'eathens are they????
You suggest that some Britons more committed to the foreign state, to foreign interests. And it is true for the people that is living in Great Britain for centuries. So how can one expect that other national minorities would be British patriots soon?
To be honest Serge, its not as counterintuitive as it may appear. After all most British politicians are as pro Israel as they are pro British (perhaps more so).

There's a train of thought that suggests that US and UK casualties in the Mid-East have replaced potential Israeli casualties in the future; sacrificing your own for those of another nation, while I'm sure considered honourable in some quarters, is a mindset that certainly is not going to make you contra British or American citizens joining the IDF.
 
#20
Sergey -- you are being mischevious, for reasons that escape me. Every country has those amongst them who have "other" loyalties. These Jewish kids are no threat to the UK, and who am I to say what their loyalties are? They probably feel very British and very Jewish! I just feel that on balance, they are not as you originally assert "future British Soldiers" prepared by the Israelis.
 

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