Israel offers the Golan Heights to Syria

#1
If true, a very sensible and welcome step in the right direction.

Telegraph said:
Israel offers the Golan Heights to Syria

The Israeli prime minister has offered to return the Golan Heights to Syria in exchange for peace, the nation's press reported yesterday.

In a secret communique, Ehud Olmert demanded that in exchange for the return of the strategic highlands, Syria dissolve its alliances with Iran, Hezbollah and Palestinian militant factions who maintain headquarters in Damascus.

Cont/...
 
#3
I would automatically resolve territorial dispute with Lebanon. USA would be able to normalise relations with Syria. Moreover, this country could be potentially an American ally. Why not? And what is the price? Small, in not tiny mountaneous area.
 
#4
Ehud Olmert demanded that in exchange for the return of the strategic highlands, Syria dissolve its alliances with Iran, Hezbollah and Palestinian militant factions who maintain headquarters in Damascus.
That is the stumbling block. Israel have been offering them the same 'land for peace' deal they gave the Egyptians for 40 years and the Syrians have refused to take it. The Syrians will still want to run terrorism in the area more than they want the Golan.
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#5
What a load of shoit!!!!

Israel demands that in exchange Syria stops supporting Hezbolla, Iran and Palestinian militants.

Anyone who knows anything of ME politics will realise that that will be a five minute wonder and the Syria will go back to supporting enemies of Israel.

The whole plan IMHO is short-sighted and stupid. The Golan Heights provide Israel with a superb bit of ground from which to monitor its enemies and a good buffer against attackers. Giving it away will achieve something for 5 minutes and then provide as much of a threat to Israel as it did before the six day war.

IMHO: dumb, dumb, dumb.
 
#6
whitecity said:
If true, a very sensible and welcome step in the right direction.

Telegraph said:
Israel offers the Golan Heights to Syria

The Israeli prime minister has offered to return the Golan Heights to Syria in exchange for peace, the nation's press reported yesterday.

In a secret communique, Ehud Olmert demanded that in exchange for the return of the strategic highlands, Syria dissolve its alliances with Iran, Hezbollah and Palestinian militant factions who maintain headquarters in Damascus.

Cont/...
Riiiiiiight is Olmert in any position to actually guarantee such a deal? Or is he looking to pull a Barak. The US is coming the realisation that it needs Syria for Iraq, open detente with Iran not being a possibility. Does normalisation of relations really suit Israel? No, Golan also offer access to fresh water. It is a spoiler.
 
#7
Biped said:
What a load of shoit!!!!

Israel demands that in exchange Syria stops supporting Hezbolla, Iran and Palestinian militants.

Anyone who knows anything of ME politics will realise that that will be a five minute wonder and the Syria will go back to supporting enemies of Israel.

The whole plan IMHO is short-sighted and stupid. The Golan Heights provide Israel with a superb bit of ground from which to monitor its enemies and a good buffer against attackers. Giving it away will achieve something for 5 minutes and then provide as much of a threat to Israel as it did before the six day war.

IMHO: dumb, dumb, dumb.
I wouldn't bother getting too aerated if I were you. Its a non offer. (Thief nicks land. Thief offers land back on certain conditions. Conditions not accepted. Thief then uses non acceptance of conditions as a justification for it's continuing possesion of land that doesn't belong to it.)

Furthermore, as the dishonest offer is made under the ageis of 'Land for Peace' non acceptance of the non offer by the Syrians can and will be potrayed by the Israelis as a sign of hostility on their part. This in turn can be used by the Israelis to become more agressive to the Syrians.

Not for the first time I'm obliged to doff my cap to the Israelis and say, "Smooth move Ex Lax!"
 
#8
All points above well noted.

But surely the main point is simple. Until Israel FULLY complies with its international obligations to return to the pre-1967 borders - there will never be even the slightest chance of peace in the region.

If true, this is another step in making that possibility become reality.
 

Nehustan

On ROPS
On ROPs
#9
Any one heard this breaking news about the four infiltrators? Seems to be far better tactics than going 'bang' on a bus. Its all over the Arab media at the moment, should break shortly...
 

Nehustan

On ROPS
On ROPs
#10
Elsewhere, four armed Palestinians attacked the Kissufim crossing checkpoint between central Gaza and Israel, Palestinian security sources said.

The Israeli military said that clashes broke out in the sector and that Palestinian fighters from Gaza infiltrated into southern Israel on Saturday during an attack on the border crossing.

A military spokesman said: "There was an infiltration into Israeli territory in the area of the Kissufim crossing."

He said the military believed it had located the fighters, but did not say how many might have got through.

A spokesman for al-Quds Brigades, the armed wing of Islamic Jihad, said two of the fighters belonged to al-Quds Brigades and two other were members of al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades.

The fighters stormed the post in an armoured jeep, similar to those of the Israeli military, killing one soldier, the spokesman said.

Hiba Akila, Al Jazeera's correspondent in Gaza, said the joint operation, of al-Quds Brigades and al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, has been called "the hot summer" operation.

It was called a retaliation for Israeli practices against the Palestinians, she said.
[align=center]Source[/align]

Wonder what their target is in Israel proper, seem quite a strong arm way to slip people into Israel, given that there is no wall around Gaza and the 'fence' can be porous. If I had to guess, I'd say it was a recce, they'll probably be back in Gaza by nightfall tonight or tomorrow.

'Hot summer' doesn't sound like a picnic invite to me...
 
#11
This comes at a time when Israel has been under a lot of pressure not to talk to the Syrians from DC, or at least the bit of DC that still obeys Dick Cheney. There's been rumors of back channel contacts for some time. Last year some crazies on The Hill were even urging Israel to widen their already obviously failing Lebanese incursion into Syria. The Israelis weren't biting they are not fools.

They should have given the heights back long ago the water sources they provide are not worth the trouble and their strategic value is minimal.

What they want from this deal is for Damascus to promise they'll cut off Hizbollah, Hamas and sever their ties with Iran. In return they are genorously offering to recognise Syrian sovereignty over the Golan Heights and take a 25 year lease on it from the Syrians with the prospect that if Damascus have been very good boys they might give it back. It is legally Syrian territory now so what this amounts to would be an acknowledgement of their illegal prescence, a declaration that it will go on for at least a quarter of a century and I assume an unspecified large bung as a sweetner. It is a typically big hearted gesture from Tel Aviv. If the Syrians had a sense of humor they'd be cacking themselves at the chutzpah of it.

A pity, successful splitting the Iran-Syria alliance would greatly improve Israel's deteriorating security situation. They may regret not making a viable deal when they were in a position of strength in a decade. Things are likely to get very hot in the Holy Land as a result of the fall of Baghdad. Tel Aviv knows this but their domestic politics cripple effective diplomacy, they need a tougher Oval Office to rescue them from their folly.

See Haaretz.
 
#12
I don't blame the Israelis for being defensive, given the chance, the Arabs will push all the Israelis into the sea after slaughtering and raping the rest left behind before killiing them and robbing the weak, poor, disabled, old, I cannot see the Arabs quite following the rule of law and civilised behavior given their past practice.

before partition the was never any Palestinian or Israeli nation prior to the creation of the Two states, the whole territory was called Transjordan and both ethnic groups have been living in the area for years and was split into Palestine, Isreal and Jordan after the British mandate was handed to the UN.

the surrounding Arab nations were not in the slightest interested in Palestinians, they just want to slaughter Jews and did actually say they want to make the streets of jerusalem run with Isreali blood, that comment would put the sh1ts up any Israelis and make them fight harder for their very own survival and has been that way ever since.

for the record many Palestinians are Christians, not a very well known fact.
 
#13
I don't blame the Israelis for being defensive, given the chance, the Arabs will push all the Israelis into the sea after slaughtering and raping the rest left behind before killiing them and robbing the weak, poor, disabled, old, I cannot see the Arabs quite following the rule of law and civilised behavior given their past practice.
And it's 2007 not AD 07.


Which Arab nation poses a serious and I mean serious threat to the state of Israel?
 
#14
PartTimePongo said:
I don't blame the Israelis for being defensive, given the chance, the Arabs will push all the Israelis into the sea after slaughtering and raping the rest left behind before killing them and robbing the weak, poor, disabled, old, I cannot see the Arabs quite following the rule of law and civilised behavior given their past practice.
And it's 2007 not AD 07.


Which Arab nation poses a serious and I mean serious threat to the state of Israel?
the Arabs attacked in 1948-49, 1967, 1973-74, 1982 due to PLO attacks.

there is every chance they will try again, this can include Syria, Iran, any proxy terrorist organisations such as Hamas, Fatah, Al Qaida, Hezzbollah amongst many groups, it is not surprising that they do feel under siege, if they really plan it right, they can coordinate their efforts in a concerted attack inside and out, that threat is there.

just because it is 2007 doesn't mean they won't attack in the future, Iran can be a future potential threat if they do develop Nuclear weapons, (which I think they will do) and decide to use it, I would not dismiss that out of hand.

none of the Muslim groups are willing to make peace with Israel, Egypt did and was vilified for it by the Arab league, Jordan also made peace with Israel in 1994, the rest are not interested and many terrorist groups still launch rocket attacks on residental areas in Israe, leading to retaliatory raids will dosen't solve anything on both sides, in spite of withdrawing from occupied territories and demolishing Jewish settlement, it was still not enough for them, they still want to continue attacking until there is no Israeli alive, how do you deal with that ? as long as that goes on, there can be no true peace and no Isreali is going to give up anything that will compromise their safety as they do not trust the Arabs to keep their word, as mentioned earlier any agreement will be a 5 minute wonder.

in short the menace and threat to Israel is still there and as long as that continues no Israeli will feel secure.
 
#15
I'll make it simple.

Which Arab state today poses a serious and credible threat to the end of the state of Israel.
 
#16
PartTimePongo said:
I'll make it simple.

Which Arab state today poses a serious and credible threat to the end of the state of Israel.
I would have to say Iran and Syria.

I must add it is not states we have to worry about now , its terrorism the worl d has chanegd quite a bit.

you tell me, if you think differently, so let me ask you then, which state do you think poses a threat to Isreal ?
 
#17
which state do you think poses a threat to Isreal ?
Looking at Israels military capability?


None. They can only cry "It's the wolf, it's the wolf" so many times.
 
#18
I would prefer that you come back to me with Facts, rather than one line questions, If you look at my post, I have spoken from knowledge and reaserch and if you wants to change my mind, I would like you to present me with a response backed up by facts.

The reason I say Syria and Iran is that unlike some Arab Government, surrounding Israel, the same Political party and Leading political figures are still in power as in since the last conflict with Israel so have a grudge against Israel, both are one party state, with a tight grip on power and to direct attention away from that is to portray Israel as the demon to be destroyed, an Islamic Nuclear bomb is a frightening prospect, Israel will retaliate using their own nuclear bomb, Israel will survive as they always have so nothing will change only the stakes are higher, as long as the Israelis are willing to fight, no arab state can destroy Israel but they can keep attacking regardless, either Directly or by Proxy through the Hamas, Fatah, PLO, Hezzbollah, as long as they keep chnating death to Israel to young Arabs, they will eb brainwashed and will be the next generation of Leaders and the cycle will continue, quite depressing really.

I really do hope for peace and accommodation but I don't see it happening in my lifetime.
 
#19
semper said:
PartTimePongo said:
I'll make it simple.

Which Arab state today poses a serious and credible threat to the end of the state of Israel.
I would have to say Iran and Syria.

I must add it is not states we have to worry about now , its terrorism the worl d has chanegd quite a bit.

you tell me, if you think differently, so let me ask you then, which state do you think poses a threat to Isreal ?
Unless it wisens up and changes its tune, the biggest threat to Israel will be Israel itself. Over the years it has morphed into a deeply unattractive totally self centered aggressive self pitying monster of a nation.
And the financial subsidy given at first by America with the best intentions has caused Israel to become nothing more than welfare junkie with a gross, spoilt sence of entilement.
Its like the spoilt useless brat of rich parents who wearily have to keep subsidising its wretched lifestyle more and more whilst also hauling its arrse out of the scraps it keeps getting itself into.
It is in fact just like George Bush.

The best thing that could happen to force it to change its destructive ways is to cut its external funding give it a good slap and tell it to stand on its own to feet. Its so often and quit despicably played the holocaust card in order just to get its own petulant way. I don't think its fanciful to say that a lot of the victims of the Holocaust would be deeply ashamed were they to know what Israel has become.

funny enough, recently I heard an Israeli say that if the israeli government weren't constantly harping on about threats to Israel's existance there would be a civil war in Israel itself.
There is loads and loads of Israelis who have for a long time not like either the attitude or the direction in which their government constantly takes them.
(Threat from Syria?...give me a break)
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#20
PartTimePongo said:
which state do you think poses a threat to Isreal ?
Looking at Israels military capability?


None. They can only cry "It's the wolf, it's the wolf" so many times.
I agree wholeheartedly with Semper on this.

Just because Israel is currently stronger military than its neighbours, just as it was during the 6 day war, and most probably because of the annual 2 billion dollar bung they get from the US senate, does not mean that it will ever be thus.

Iran is developing nukes and the US might not actually stop them. Israel might, and Israel might get into a full blown war in so doing. With Syria next door, they might also join in in a part re-run of the 6 day war all over again.

As for the claim that Israel 'stole' the land and must give it back - I firmly disagree. Israel was forced to fight for its existance against FOUR countries at once when they attacked during what was effectivily Israeli holiday season. During that short war, Israel comprehensively trounced its enemies (who were the aggressors) and pushed them way back into their own territories. At the same time, Israel took the Golan Heights, the Sinai desert and some other bits on its borders. I call that (and millenia of human history will back me up on this) "The spoils of war". Just like Britain was the spoils of war for the Norman invaders or the Roman invaders before them. Europe is the shape it is today only because the victorious kept the land they won and didn't give it back, either through concience or not having to give it back to a newer, more succesful aggressor. Look at the Sudetenland, modern Germany, Brussels, Poland, Russia, China and so on. All based on borders drawn after eons of conflict and losses.

Look at the map of Africa today with it's countries - who drew those borders and made those countries; Africans? No, colonising Europeans. Nobody is asking to redraw those borders today.

Look at the ME and ask yourself who drew up THOSE borders; Arabs? No, various succesful invaders INCLUDING the British, the Turks, the Greeks AND the Romans. Who's arguing for a Kurdish homeland in the ME? The west? No. ME countries? No. The Turks? No again. Lots of shouting about the rather small Israel, but not a peep about the completely homeless Kurds spread across at four different countries without their own.

Like I said, the Sinai Peninsula and the Golan Heights were won fair and square by Israel. History notes that they are not obliged to return them unless they are won back militarily.

Like I've already said: Palestine didn't exist as a country until partition under the British mandate. The UN borders never came into effect because the the 'Palestinian' lands were immediately ANNEXED (stolen) by Egypt, Syria, Jordan AND Israel. It wasn't until Israel beat those other countries and knocked them out of the territories they'd annexed for themselves (without a solitary thought for the Palestinains) that they suddenly started to give a sh!t. Crocodile tears if you ask me.

Israel will never be a threat to the ME unless the ME first attacks it. That's a fact!
 

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