Isolation is splendid for the British householder

#1
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1744291.ece

Four out of five people have never socialised with those living next door and more than a third do not even know their names, according to a poll published yesterday.

Residents are unwilling to befriend their neighbours and in the most extreme cases are ready to move to get away from them, according to the survey of 2,238 people by Foreign Currency Direct.

It found that 36 per cent of Britons do not know their neighbours’ names and almost a quarter (23 per cent) avoid those living next door. About one in ten (9 per cent) have had a row with their neighbour, with noise being the most common cause, followed by parking and garden maintenance.

Peter Ellis, of Foreign Currency Direct, said: “Britons have lost their sense of community and many do not even know their neighbours.”

Just as i've always said, only minorities and Muslims are always being criticised for 'separating' themselves from society when it looks like pretty much everybody in modern Britain lives separate lives these days.
 
#2
Margaret Thatcher is largely to blame for this, by saying - and acting on - her gravely mistaken belief that "There is no such thing as Society".

Man is a tribal, sociable animal, and there is ONLY Society.

Lose a grip on that, and the barbarians take over.
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#3
caubeen said:
Margaret Thatcher is largely to blame for this, by saying - and acting on - her gravely mistaken belief that "There is no such thing as Society".

Man is a tribal, sociable animal, and there is ONLY Society.

Lose a grip on that, and the barbarians take over.
Erm, perhaps not quite that simple.

Try the Great War where whole communities were devastated, followed by WWII and then fllowed by an ever-more mobile population with cars and money, and 2 million immigrants and you begin to see the reason why neighbours do not even know one another, let alone wish to speak to them.

It was not a case of Thatcher saying Don't talk to your neighbours' and it was done.
 
#4
caubeen said:
Margaret Thatcher is largely to blame for this, by saying - and acting on - her gravely mistaken belief that "There is no such thing as Society".

Man is a tribal, sociable animal, and there is ONLY Society.

Lose a grip on that, and the barbarians take over.
I fail to see how Margaret Thatcher could have had so profound an effect within such a short time, besides which the full quote shows that she fully acknowledged the 'clannish' nature of man.

There is no such thing as society: there are individual men and women, and there are families.
 
#5
I can see it all too easily.

While I was growing up, my parents lived in the same house for over 20 years and while they got on well with two families who lived in the house on one side, the family on the other side were a bunch of busy body, egotistical cnuts who looked down their noses at everyone else. In the end it was them that drove my parents into moving. :x


As to the wider issue, I think part of it is to do with how society has changed over the last 20-30 years, too. I socialise almost as much online and over the mobile as I do in person with friends, family and work colleagues.

Then there's cars. It used to be you passed people you knew in the street... that just doesn't happen anymore. People travel by car to the shops, out and about, to work... pretty much anytime you've got more than a couple of hundred yards to walk these days. That cuts off social contact to a large degree.

(edited for mong typing)
 
#6
radioactiveman said:
caubeen said:
Margaret Thatcher is largely to blame for this, by saying - and acting on - her gravely mistaken belief that "There is no such thing as Society".

Man is a tribal, sociable animal, and there is ONLY Society.

Lose a grip on that, and the barbarians take over.
I fail to see how Margaret Thatcher could have had so profound an effect within such a short time, besides which the full quote shows that she fully acknowledged the 'clannish' nature of man.

There is no such thing as society: there are individual men and women, and there are families.
It may not have been her influence entirely; but that infamous remark was certainly symptomatic of a selfishness that has become pervasive in the past 25 years or so, IMHO.

When I compare the rich community life that was to be found in the 1960s-early 70s in the cities/suburbs I know well - Edinburgh, Dublin, Belfast, Liverpool - with the personal isolation and alienation that has increasingly become typical of them all over the past 25-ish years, I'm horrified.

Certain ethnic groupings bring their distinctive contributions to the total picture; but for the average working/lower-middle-class Caucasian Brit in his/her 30s-60s life has probably never been lonelier.

Thatcher did nothing to check the slide towards that current situation.
 
#7
"I think we've been through a period where too many people have been given to understand that if they have a problem, it's the government's job to cope with it. 'I have a problem, I'll get a grant.' 'I'm homeless, the government must house me.' They're casting their problem on society. And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

Do try putting quotes into context.

msr
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#8
msr said:
"I think we've been through a period where too many people have been given to understand that if they have a problem, it's the government's job to cope with it. 'I have a problem, I'll get a grant.' 'I'm homeless, the government must house me.' They're casting their problem on society. And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

Do try putting quotes into context.

msr
EXACTLY! And when put in context, and the quotes are in the right place, then she was absolutely spot-on.
 
#9
Biped said:
msr said:
"I think we've been through a period where too many people have been given to understand that if they have a problem, it's the government's job to cope with it. 'I have a problem, I'll get a grant.' 'I'm homeless, the government must house me.' They're casting their problem on society. And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

Do try putting quotes into context.

msr
EXACTLY! And when put in context, and the quotes are in the right place, then she was absolutely spot-on.
Contextualising that specific remark - "And, you know, there is no such thing as society" - actually merely highlights Thatcher's flawed, simplistic logic.

There is a world of middle ground between her picture of government-dependent, grant-dependent, handout culture on the one hand and the spiteful, selfish, uncaring, devil-take-the-hindmost attitudes that her administrations fostered so alarmingly.

No-one in British public life in my lifetime has been so directly, personally responsible for the emergence of such anti-social attitudes, in all social classes and income brackets. The Major and Blair years have seen the unrolling of a pernicious trend which began under Thatcher.

"People must look to themselves first." ???

No - "I have to live for others and not for myself: that's middle-class morality." - George Bernard Shaw. Shaw's priorities lead naturally to the kind of socially-engaged One-Nation Conservatism that Thatcher never understood.
 
B

Biscuits_AB

Guest
#10
F*ck society. I've just been out picking up the next door neighbours cat sh*t from my back garden. I've lobbed it over the fence and into his garden and some of it has splattered his green house. I'm going to buy an air rifle tomorrow and if his cat sh*ts there again, it'll be for the last time. I'm f*cking sick of it. It honks as well. I've spoken to him next door on numerous occasions about the matter, I've even shoved some of the cat sh*t through his letter box (he phoned the police that night but I denied it).

I have no qualms about shooting the animal dead, but as I've never shot cat before, can anyone advise where I should hit it so that it dies first time. I don't want screams and bleeding cats running all over the gaff as he'll know that it was me who did it.
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
#11
I use Winchester Xpediter on cats.

Within 50 yds it turns them inside out.
 
#12
Biscuits_AB said:
F*ck society. I've just been out picking up the next door neighbours cat sh*t from my back garden. I've lobbed it over the fence and into his garden and some of it has splattered his green house. I'm going to buy an air rifle tomorrow and if his cat sh*ts there again, it'll be for the last time.

Acquisition of an Air Weapon With Intent to Destroy Private Property and to Discharge Unlawfully.

I'm f*cking sick of it. It honks as well. I've spoken to him next door on numerous occasions about the matter, I've even shoved some of the cat sh*t through his letter box (he phoned the police that night but I denied it).

Anti-social behaviour. Vandalism & Commission of a Nuisance. Lying to a Police Officer.

I have no qualms about shooting the animal dead, but as I've never shot cat before, can anyone advise where I should hit it so that it dies first time.

Properly, to "shoot the cat" means to vomit; but since drunkenness often leads to vomiting it also means to get drunk. See : http://freaky_freya.tripod.com/Drunktionary/E-H.html

I don't want screams and bleeding cats running all over the gaff as he'll know that it was me who did it.

Not easy with an airgun. Heart-lung area well forward in chest, protected by shoulders. Small lethal area. Head-shot v. unwise; bones quite thick. Risk of breaking jaw, and death by starvation.

Recommend cage-trap. Legal, humane etc; esp. if neighbour advised first.
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
#13
Fcuk, is lying to a G-man illegal ?
 
B

Biscuits_AB

Guest
#14
caubeen said:
Biscuits_AB said:
F*ck society. I've just been out picking up the next door neighbours cat sh*t from my back garden. I've lobbed it over the fence and into his garden and some of it has splattered his green house. I'm going to buy an air rifle tomorrow and if his cat sh*ts there again, it'll be for the last time.

Acquisition of an Air Weapon With Intent to Destroy Private Property and to Discharge Unlawfully.

I'm f*cking sick of it. It honks as well. I've spoken to him next door on numerous occasions about the matter, I've even shoved some of the cat sh*t through his letter box (he phoned the police that night but I denied it).

Anti-social behaviour. Vandalism & Commission of a Nuisance. Lying to a Police Officer.

I have no qualms about shooting the animal dead, but as I've never shot cat before, can anyone advise where I should hit it so that it dies first time.

Properly, to "shoot the cat" means to vomit; but since drunkenness often leads to vomiting it also means to get drunk. See : http://freaky_freya.tripod.com/Drunktionary/E-H.html

I don't want screams and bleeding cats running all over the gaff as he'll know that it was me who did it.

Not easy with an airgun. Heart-lung area well forward in chest, protected by shoulders. Small lethal area. Head-shot v. unwise; bones quite thick. Risk of breaking jaw, and death by starvation.

Recommend cage-trap. Legal, humane etc; esp. if neighbour advised first.
So, you wouldn't recommend slotting the c*nt then? What about warfarin? Does it have the same effect on cats that it does on rodents and how do you get hold of some? I was thinking about shooting the f*cker, but maybe poisioning might be the way ahead. It's quieter I suppose and the little bugger will no doubt die under a bed at home.
 

DieHard

LE
Book Reviewer
#15
If i catch the snivelling,snidey,fat,ugly,arrogant **** who lives 2 doors away trying on with my missus there really well be a death. Getting to know your neighbours is fine ,but not shagging your way around the neighbourhood
 
#16
Biscuits_AB said:
So, you wouldn't recommend slotting the c*nt then? What about warfarin? Does it have the same effect on cats that it does on rodents and how do you get hold of some? I was thinking about shooting the f*cker, but maybe poisioning might be the way ahead. It's quieter I suppose and the little bugger will no doubt die under a bed at home.
If your neighbour is totally unreasonable, despite your complaints, you must do as you think best. Being a man of intrepid ingenuity, many methods will suggest themselves.

Shooting, however, will merely put you clearly in the wrong, and will not necessarily or humanely put the cat in the bag.

And we don't want sh1tty cats getting out of bags, do we?

Good luck!
 
#17
DieHard said:
If i catch the snivelling,snidey,fat,ugly,arrogant * who lives 2 doors away trying on with my missus there really well be a death. Getting to know your neighbours is fine ,but not shagging your way around the neighbourhood
Isn't it all in the spirit of Community Involvement Outreach Togetherness Neighbourhood Thingy?

In my day, neighbours shared cups of tea (and occasionally sugar, when the going was sticky).

Or maybe your missus should dress and behave more demurely? You could see to that, surely.

Before you visit the "snivelling, snidey, fat, ugly, arrogant * who lives 2 doors away" and inform him of the price of fish.
 
#18
A lot depends on whereabouts you live.

In my experience village life is much preferable to urban life. I know ten times more people now than when I lived in a town, mostly because you see people in the village shop and in the pubs. Barriers are less likely to be formed when you know the name and background of your neighbours.

I'd never live in a large UK town or city again.
 
B

Biscuits_AB

Guest
#19
I'm not a fan of the old 'cat in the bag' routine. Mainly because (I would imagine), that it would be bloody hard to catch the bugger, then there's the fight to get it inside the bag, then there's the question of what sort of bag do you use. I doubt a Tesco's 'bag for life' would withstand the sharp claws of an upset cat, then of course there's me having to get dressed up with the old 'bin mans' gloves and some covvies.....would I need goggles? Then there's the drive to the nearest river, which isn't that far away, but there's the chance of being seen.

Now, all of this seems to be a bit too much of an effort just to top a cat what sh*ts in your garden. I reckon that I'll stick with the air rifle plan. I'll get some practice in first for about a week or two and then have a crack at it.

Do they still sell those darts for airguns or would you recommend the old lead slug?
 
#20
caubeen said:
Biped said:
msr said:
"I think we've been through a period where too many people have been given to understand that if they have a problem, it's the government's job to cope with it. 'I have a problem, I'll get a grant.' 'I'm homeless, the government must house me.' They're casting their problem on society. And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

Do try putting quotes into context.

msr
EXACTLY! And when put in context, and the quotes are in the right place, then she was absolutely spot-on.
Contextualising that specific remark - "And, you know, there is no such thing as society" - actually merely highlights Thatcher's flawed, simplistic logic.

There is a world of middle ground between her picture of government-dependent, grant-dependent, handout culture on the one hand and the spiteful, selfish, uncaring, devil-take-the-hindmost attitudes that her administrations fostered so alarmingly.

No-one in British public life in my lifetime has been so directly, personally responsible for the emergence of such anti-social attitudes, in all social classes and income brackets. The Major and Blair years have seen the unrolling of a pernicious trend which began under Thatcher.

"People must look to themselves first." ???

No - "I have to live for others and not for myself: that's middle-class morality." - George Bernard Shaw. Shaw's priorities lead naturally to the kind of socially-engaged One-Nation Conservatism that Thatcher never understood.
I'm afraid that you are ignoring the economics of the time. The Britain of the late '70s and early '80s was reaping the harvest of Keynesianist monetary thinking and consensus politics that led us to the brink of financial disaster - rampant inflation forcing the UK to beg the IMF to bail us out, national incomes policy and unions that held industry to ransom. Whilst I would agree that it wasn't pretty and am sure that it was an unfortunate side-effect, it was the right medicine for the patient at that time - we were the 'sick man of Europe'. Is it a coincidence that countries like France, where the State funds pensions and healthcare that it can no longer afford and Trades Unionism is all-powerful, are desperate for some stiff medicine of their own?
 

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