'Islamophobia' - Parliamentary group's definition to 'Cripple anti-terror fight'?

R0B

Old-Salt
#61
That's fine - as long as Christianity, Judaism, Sikhism, Hinduism, Taoism and any other faith practised in this country is accorded an identical protected status.
I'm not in favour of adding laws for each race/religion. We already have laws for anti-Jewsishness and shortly anti-Muslimness laws, should this not just use be covered in general anti-racist legislation? That way everybody gets treated the same.
 
#62
There’s an elephant in the room here, that it has become impossible to discuss or even imply, for fear of being branded a small minded racist.

The UK, despite it’s tolerance and openness, which is an example on the world stage, is a Christian country, that embraces others from other cultures and religions.

I for one, welcome anyone to this country who wants to work towards improving this place, in whatever way they can, irrespective of their race, religion or gender......I’ll even welcome Ginger people, but that’s a struggle even for me.

However, those people have to accept that this country does not have to bend to their needs whether that be religious, cultural or anything else for that matter.

They’ve come here, so it’s for them to accept our national hospitality and integrate, not for us to dilute our own culture to make them feel like they’re still where they’ve come from.

The problem is, that by openly voicing these opinions, an individual runs the risk of being branded a racist.

Am I am racist, or do I just want to retain my own cultural identity as English/British/Christian?

Who stands up for me? No politician, because it would be professional suicide.

And that’s exactly how very dangerous, far right politics thrives, which leads to far left, equally unpleasant politics such as Corbin’s cronies.
You seem to be confused. Many UK Islamists are white & their ancestors have been here for many generations.

Don't make the mistake of believing that there is a single Muslim in community who all act and behave identically.

Also, being British is more to do with have similar values & standards and a common commitment to the state. It's not a requirement to conform racially or religiously to a particular ideal.
 
#63
You seem to be confused. Many UK Islamists are white & their ancestors have been here for many generations.

Don't make the mistake of believing that there is a single Muslim in community who all act and behave identically.

Also, being British is more to do with have similar values & standards and a common commitment to the state. It's not a requirement to conform racially or religiously to a particular ideal.
Yes what exactly do you want Muslims to do to be more british be prescriptive. What is being british?
 
#64
Err...by definition, racism is defined by a belief in the superiority of a particular race. Not religion.

Not my definition, that of the OED.

Definition of racism in English:
    • racism
noun
mass noun
  • 1Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
Jolly good.

Like I said, not that some people would admit it.

QED.
 
#65
Interestingly, some - not all - religions, absolutely believe in the superiority of their particular sky pixie over all others.

Should they be called religionist? Or Pixieist?
 
#68
You seem to be confused. Many UK Islamists are white & their ancestors have been here for many generations.

Don't make the mistake of believing that there is a single Muslim in community who all act and behave identically.

Also, being British is more to do with have similar values & standards and a common commitment to the state. It's not a requirement to conform racially or religiously to a particular ideal.
This is one of the problems as I have said before. You are correct that those who practice the Islamic faith are not a single body, much like all ideologies. Sadly though they use the core tenants of doctrinal faith to give legitimacy to actions they carry out in the name of furthering one of the core tenants. I wont disagree that it is sharp practice but that just brings us back to the 'reformation' argument.

You also have to accept that there is a political aspect to the religion that, is also an elephant in the room when trying to deal with the fighting terrorism, taqiyya is permitted and encouraged to further the cause of Islam. I know this is a small part and simplistic in its framing but, again is part of the ideology. again this brings us back to the 'reformation' argument.

Furthering the use of Islamophobia into law is clearly a classic obfuscation. I would also say that some people have every right to have have a phobia of any ideology that at best will see them treated as 2nd class citizens at worst put to death, this includes some within the faith also.

Like it or not this is not a nation that has embraced Islam as a concept in any great numbers organically, while as a nation we have drifted away from open Christian religiosity, it is a core of our society. One could only advance that we are not a nation predominantly built on Christian values sociality, if you are a raging atheist, but that's another argument.

My personal sympathy for the Islamic faith started to degrade, after Op Agricola and hasn't not been improved by the actions, of some who are militant but also some who are not. Once any group uses or tries to use there religious beliefs to gain any special treatment, they lose any interest I might have in supporting them, in any way.
 
#69
That doesn't seem very balanced reporting. That aside, glad HMG is saying no.
Colour me surprised at the reporting narrative being as it is. The debate sheduled in Parliament means that it wont go away, anytime soon and will continue to be used to forward political advantage.
 
#70
Colour me surprised at the reporting narrative being as it is. The debate sheduled in Parliament means that it wont go away, anytime soon and will continue to be used to forward political advantage.
You are right.
The comments made by those proposing the definition are the sort of ID politics you described earlier. And these from people who would say they are moderates!
 
#71
This is one of the problems as I have said before. You are correct that those who practice the Islamic faith are not a single body, much like all ideologies. Sadly though they use the core tenants of doctrinal faith to give legitimacy to actions they carry out in the name of furthering one of the core tenants. I wont disagree that it is sharp practice but that just brings us back to the 'reformation' argument.

You also have to accept that there is a political aspect to the religion that, is also an elephant in the room when trying to deal with the fighting terrorism, taqiyya is permitted and encouraged to further the cause of Islam. I know this is a small part and simplistic in its framing but, again is part of the ideology. again this brings us back to the 'reformation' argument.

Furthering the use of Islamophobia into law is clearly a classic obfuscation. I would also say that some people have every right to have have a phobia of any ideology that at best will see them treated as 2nd class citizens at worst put to death, this includes some within the faith also.

Like it or not this is not a nation that has embraced Islam as a concept in any great numbers organically, while as a nation we have drifted away from open Christian religiosity, it is a core of our society. One could only advance that we are not a nation predominantly built on Christian values sociality, if you are a raging atheist, but that's another argument.

My personal sympathy for the Islamic faith started to degrade, after Op Agricola and hasn't not been improved by the actions, of some who are militant but also some who are not. Once any group uses or tries to use there religious beliefs to gain any special treatment, they lose any interest I might have in supporting them, in any way.
You must not know what the core tenets of Islam are if you think they are used by jihadis to justify violence. In some cases, single aya are contextualize by interpretations of hadith & then interpreted via an extremist scholar to get the nugget they want.

And Taqqiya is a Shia concept, not sunni. Wrong jihadis, my dude.
 

ancienturion

LE
Book Reviewer
#72

ancienturion

LE
Book Reviewer
#73
There is no political opportunism being used by the chair, for personal reasons. No sire bob. :-x
I think the make up of the Parliamentary Members gives more cause for concern.
 
#74
You must not know what the core tenets of Islam are if you think they are used by jihadis to justify violence. In some cases, single aya are contextualize by interpretations of hadith & then interpreted via an extremist scholar to get the nugget they want.

And Taqqiya is a Shia concept, not sunni. Wrong jihadis, my dude.
True, but Sunnis do permit similar. It is acceptable to attempt to preserve one's own life by behaving in a manner that may appear contrary to the professed faith.
 
#75
How is british society Bending to their needs? Actual examples not extreme nonsense banning Christmas dit’s etc.

I always like to ask the question. How has anyone being PC impacted your life in any way. Literal specific examples not emotive stuff you’ve read that makes you angry
A specific example lays in the fact that, if I were to have this conversation at work, I'd be struck off. That sort of attitude stifles sensible debate.

Another is when attending a female from a particular group, they want a woman to attend. Who else gets to chose the gender of their Paramedic? They're either sick or they're not.

I'm pretty certain that if you were to start a thread on this subject, there'd be significant examples.
 
#76
True, but Sunnis do permit similar. It is acceptable to attempt to preserve one's own life by behaving in a manner that may appear contrary to the professed faith.
Ok, but that is not what Islamists promoting a duff definition of Islamophobia is about.
 
#77
A specific example lays in the fact that, if I were to have this conversation at work, I'd be struck off. That sort of attitude stifles sensible debate.

Another is when attending a female from a particular group, they want a woman to attend. Who else gets to chose the gender of their Paramedic? They're either sick or they're not.

I'm pretty certain that if you were to start a thread on this subject, there'd be significant examples.
1. The content and language of your conversation may get you struck off. How many people have been struck off for having sensible debate? Bear in mind it’s straightforward to research the numbers
2. Is that written policy and procedure in your organisation?

Both examples are canteen talk. Yes punters or their relatives may not be happy with a male paramedic but is it significant? Do they refuse treatment, are females pulled off other jobs to attend. Again is this policy and procedure? Does it impact your service

The problem about race and religion conversations is that eventually with gentle and considered probing you end up running out of reasons to be angry other than they are have a funny religion, have brown skin and are different to you.

As someone practicing medicine i’d hope you’d have a more civilised and tuned in bedside manner to deal with patients who are different, know that age old rule societal rule, don’t discuss religion and politics

Your enemy is austerity and insane cuts to your services budgets and manpower not culturally different sick brown people

Sensible debate from paramedics

This sort of sensible debate

Sensible debate

Racist patients ..

Nurses getting in on sensible debate act
 
#78
That is, it is a freedom of speech issue too.

Don't be so bloody naïve, there isn't any, anything you say, will be taken out of context, and held against you, snowflakes, religious zealots, PC mongs, and anybody who thinks they are " Right On " and "With It" if that is the right terminology, will rip you apart, combine that with the spineless rabble in charge, who will bend over backwards to placate the minority talking heads, your average home grown, 100% Brit born citizen hasn't got a leg to stand on. Not content with selling off our industry, they now want to gag our dissent, our voice in sensible debate, if it quacks like a duck, flies like a duck, then its a F******** duck, and no amount of bullshit legislation will stop free and colourful speech.
 
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#79
1. The content and language of your conversation may get you struck off. How many people have been struck off for having sensible debate? Bear in mind it’s straightforward to research the numbers
2. Is that written policy and procedure in your organisation?

Both examples are canteen talk. Yes punters or their relatives may not be happy with a male paramedic but is it significant? Do they refuse treatment, are females pulled off other jobs to attend. Again is this policy and procedure? Does it impact your service

The problem about race and religion conversations is that eventually with gentle and considered probing you end up running out of reasons to be angry other than they are have a funny religion, have brown skin and are different to you.

As someone practicing medicine i’d hope you’d have a more civilised and tuned in bedside manner to deal with patients who are different, know that age old rule societal rule, don’t discuss religion and politics

Your enemy is austerity and insane cuts to your services budgets and manpower not culturally different sick brown people

Sensible debate from paramedics

This sort of sensible debate

Sensible debate

Racist patients ..

Nurses getting in on sensible debate act

Having reviewed HCPC paramedic tribunals back to Jan 2017 no one has been struck off for having “sensible debate” or even being racist cnuts

Paramedics seem to either be paedophiles, common or garden perverts, shit at their jobs or drunken drivers

Which are you

Paramedic HCPC tribunal records
 
#80
Don't be so bloody naïve, there isn't any, anything you say, will be taken out of context, and held against you, snowflakes, religious zealots, PC mongs, and anybody who thinks they are " Right On " and "With It" if that is the right terminology, will rip you apart, combine that with the spineless rabble in charge, who will bend over backwards to placate the minority talking heads, your average home grown, 100% Brit born citizen hasn't got a leg to stand on. Not content with selling off our industry, they now want to gag our dissent, our voice in sensible debate, if it quacks like a duck, flies like a duck, then its a F******** duck, and no amount of bullshit legislation will stop free and colourful speech.
Ha ha ha get in the sea you ******* zoomer.
 

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