'Islamophobia' - Parliamentary group's definition to 'Cripple anti-terror fight'?

#42
It is also important to highlight another 2 things:

Firstly, the main victims of this nebulous definition & subsequent empowerment of Islamists is going to be the people of the least status in the different Muslim communities. Namely women but also anyone else with beliefs, characteristics or ambitions which don't conform to the Islamist narrative.

Secondly, the most potent voices against this definition are found within the Muslim communities. Ex-Muslim & secular Muslim groups that oppose the definition have the strongest arguments against the definition but unfortunately do not have the same access to mainstream media or mainstream politicians that the Islamists do.

I think most people can see the value and importance of promoting non-Islamist Muslim voices in our society & supporting their agenda. It's disturbing when it feels like the only energetic opposition to Islamism is from ethno-nationalists; the mirror image of Islamists.
 
#43
Its not, despite you depoying the "this is what clever people fink" line; its just not something you agree with.

Far too many people mask their dislike of Middle Eastern types by pretending its a dislike of Islam / Islamism.

You won't agree, of course.
It isn't (in my case) a dislike of the race. Many races live here and are content, including many Muslims. My concern with some Muslims is only that they want our shared society to conform to their standards.

We are going off topic too as the question is, should a faith group (of any faith) be effectively exempt from investigation under anti terror laws?

Please don't (along with others) turn this into a thread about whether Islam is good or bad, whether some Arrsers are racists, etc. That's not the issue. The Policy Exchange paper does not criticise Islam. It is concerned about the impact of the HoC group's definition of Islamophobia on policing.
 
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#44
should a faith group be effectively exempt from investigation under anti terror laws?
Absolutely not!

That's why this whole idea is rotten to the core.

It is a product of Lefty Liberalism and has no place in our society.

It works in most Muslim countries, it should not be even considered here.

After we grant Islam 'race' status what next? Public stoning of the non-believers??
 
#45
Absolutely not!

That's why this whole idea is rotten to the core.

It is a product of Lefty Liberalism and has no place in our society.

It works in most Muslim countries, it should not be even considered here.

After we grant Islam 'race' status what next? Public stoning of the non-believers??
Agreed but I would apply that opposition also to, for example, any suggestion that the Hindu caste system be implemented here.
It is a fairness-related argument, linked to serious concern that the UK CT programme could be hamstrung by the poor decisions of a group which, in fairness, contains many non-Muslims:

Officers and Members of the APPG on British Muslims — APPG on British Muslims

Edit: My God. See who their Chair is!! No wonder they are recommending this sort of thing!
 
#46
Far too many people mask their dislike of Middle Eastern types by pretending its a dislike of Islam / Islamism.
I hesitate to raise this minor point, but "Middle Eastern types" includes people like this :

Benjamin Netanyahu - Wikipedia
Ariel Sharon - Wikipedia
Yitzhak Rabin - Wikipedia
Amine Gemayel - Wikipedia
Jesus - Wikipedia

or are they (perhaps) the "wrong" ME types?

Edit: My God. See who their Chair is!! No wonder they are recommending this sort of thing!
I'd say a group comprising around 25 people of which about 75% identify as the religion in question might just come to that conclusion irrespective of their chair.
 
#47
Its not, despite you depoying the "this is what clever people fink" line; its just not something you agree with.

Far too many people mask their dislike of Middle Eastern types by pretending its a dislike of Islam / Islamism.

You won't agree, of course.
No I do agree, despite you deploying "this is what" B.S. I can however acknowledge that even some people who are bigoted, can be right on some things at sometimes, I even think they should be able to express such views so I can balance any personal biased agenda against what they have to say about 'thing that happen'.

I don't have to like or agree with 'All' their views either, to as I have said many times for the hard of thinking 'Nick Griffin' and some elements within the odious BNP were sadly right about CSE. But Question Time allowing him to speak showed that to be an exception in what he generally wibbled on about. But that was ignored by the weasel class as it did not fit there all working class are stupid small minded bigots narrative.

This attitude wont help anyone, and I believe encourages people to become more extreme in there views, stop someone from speaking and what options do they have, and when you cut a mans tongue out and others will want to know what they said.

Feel free to be cross that you cannot legitimately frame my arguments as bigoted, bla bla bla... I would suggest that you do what i do with the majority of your posts and ignore them.

p.s. I dislike 'some' Middle Eastern types, some white and non white types, some LGBT types and some right and lefty political types for a variety of reasons, I dislike pretty much all of the RAF as they never flew me anywhere nice, but until 'none contextual thought crimes' are made illegal, then you and others are free too 'Get Bent'.
 
#48
I hesitate to raise this minor point, but "Middle Eastern types" includes people like this :

Benjamin Netanyahu - Wikipedia
Ariel Sharon - Wikipedia
Yitzhak Rabin - Wikipedia
Amine Gemayel - Wikipedia
Jesus - Wikipedia

or are they (perhaps) the "wrong" ME types?



I'd say a group comprising around 25 people of which about 75% identify as the religion in question might just come to that conclusion irrespective of their chair.
True. She's exactly the sort of person who enables pressure groups, however. She lends them at least her status; legal background, etc.
 
#49
Agreed but I would apply that opposition also to, for example, any suggestion that the Hindu caste system be implemented here.
It is a fairness-related argument, linked to serious concern that the UK CT programme could be hamstrung by the poor decisions of a group which, in fairness, contains many non-Muslims:

Officers and Members of the APPG on British Muslims — APPG on British Muslims

Edit: My God. See who their Chair is!! No wonder they are recommending this sort of thing!
There is no political opportunism being used by the chair, for personal reasons. No sire bob. :-x
 
#52
Feel free to be cross that you cannot legitimately frame my arguments as bigoted, bla bla bla...
why would I be cross? And why would I try to frame your arguments as bigoted?
I honestly don't care if you are, or if you aren't.
I'm sure you're not going to be bothered about whether or not a bloke thinks, or does not think your arguments are bigoted.
 
#53
I'm baffled as to how "muslimness" - which last time I looked is to do with a religion - has been conflated with race.
Racism, not race per se.

All explained on numerous occasions, not that some people would admit it.
 
#54
It really is time for there to be a more concerted push back, against the political use of law by all sides. There is and was law in place to deal with extremist speech and actions. But sadly it seems a significant number of the political class, legal profession and media constantly seek to reframe legislation for political and financial gain. This has been something the many across the broad right has complained about for some time now, yet the only argument from the broad left is smearing any criticism as "Hate".

This country rightly struck down blasphemy laws, and to see them on the verge of being brought back is clearly sad & dangerous and I clearly think political opportunism, by those who it would seem are fundamentally against free thought, free speech and individual freedoms. When the state silences people it never works, it didn't during the Elizabethan period, it does not work now.

While i am not unhappy to see the chucking of various Islamist extremists into jail, and the low IQ supporters that follow them. Many could have been put there under general incitement to violence laws, that already were in place, rather than having to draft new laws. As could the dribbling national action types, who represent a statically insignificant number. But by proscribing an organisation based around fringe ideology's this can also easily make the forbid fruit more attractive.

That geo-politics has always had an element of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" and has always been a dangerous strategy that does rarely pays off as planned. Historically the west as a whole rather keeps getting its fingers burnt, with such unintended and sometimes unforeseen results.

That national politics seems determined to follow this path, is clearly not going to end well.

edited for spelling underlined spelling.
 
#55
I'll tell you how - you see these 2?:

View attachment 393155

They're the same 'race'.

(according to Liberal Leftys anyhow)

Bravo_Bravo and fellow Libtards who afford protection to their Religion by abusing the Race-Card are not doing anyone any favours.

The Islamification of the UK continues....
That’s you on the left innit, spitting image.

Shudder
 
#56
There’s an elephant in the room here, that it has become impossible to discuss or even imply, for fear of being branded a small minded racist.

The UK, despite it’s tolerance and openness, which is an example on the world stage, is a Christian country, that embraces others from other cultures and religions.

I for one, welcome anyone to this country who wants to work towards improving this place, in whatever way they can, irrespective of their race, religion or gender......I’ll even welcome Ginger people, but that’s a struggle even for me.

However, those people have to accept that this country does not have to bend to their needs whether that be religious, cultural or anything else for that matter.

They’ve come here, so it’s for them to accept our national hospitality and integrate, not for us to dilute our own culture to make them feel like they’re still where they’ve come from.

The problem is, that by openly voicing these opinions, an individual runs the risk of being branded a racist.

Am I am racist, or do I just want to retain my own cultural identity as English/British/Christian?

Who stands up for me? No politician, because it would be professional suicide.

And that’s exactly how very dangerous, far right politics thrives, which leads to far left, equally unpleasant politics such as Corbin’s cronies.
 
#58
There’s an elephant in the room here, that it has become impossible to discuss or even imply, for fear of being branded a small minded racist.

The UK, despite it’s tolerance and openness, which is an example on the world stage, is a Christian country, that embraces others from other cultures and religions.

I for one, welcome anyone to this country who wants to work towards improving this place, in whatever way they can, irrespective of their race, religion or gender......I’ll even welcome Ginger people, but that’s a struggle even for me.

However, those people have to accept that this country does not have to bend to their needs whether that be religious, cultural or anything else for that matter.

They’ve come here, so it’s for them to accept our national hospitality and integrate, not for us to dilute our own culture to make them feel like they’re still where they’ve come from.

The problem is, that by openly voicing these opinions, an individual runs the risk of being branded a racist.

Am I am racist, or do I just want to retain my own cultural identity as English/British/Christian?

Who stands up for me? No politician, because it would be professional suicide.

And that’s exactly how very dangerous, far right politics thrives, which leads to far left, equally unpleasant politics such as Corbin’s cronies.
How is british society Bending to their needs? Actual examples not extreme nonsense banning Christmas dit’s etc.

I always like to ask the question. How has anyone being PC impacted your life in any way. Literal specific examples not emotive stuff you’ve read that makes you angry
 
#59
Racism, not race per se.

All explained on numerous occasions, not that some people would admit it.
Err...by definition, racism is defined by a belief in the superiority of a particular race. Not religion.

Not my definition, that of the OED.

Definition of racism in English:
    • racism
noun
mass noun
  • 1Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
 

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