ISD new aircraft carriers?

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by clarion, Jul 4, 2007.

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  1. When -- if ever -- will the RN get its two new aircraft carriers? Given that the order hasn't been placed yet, what follows is speculative.

    A US defence mag called Aviation Week recently published an article on the F-35, the aircraft that will go on the carriers. It's the sort of thing you'd want overhead during the next far-flung outing. Think supersonic Harrier with more heavy metal and you get the idea.

    Key thing in the article is the table giving details (not seen anywhere else that I'm aware of) of deliveries of ac to the partner countries between now and 2027.

    Original ISDs for the carriers was 2012 and 2015 but on the basis that aircraft carriers without aircraft aren't a lot of good it looks more like 2015 (36 ac in total delivered since 2009) and then 2018 (another 36 ac delivered, 12 a year). Hard to know what RAF will do with the remaining 66 planes but I'm sure they'll find something to do with them.

    Total cost of carriers: £3-4bn; total cost of ac £8bn or thereabouts.
  2. I think you are right. But at least a decision seems to have been made on the F-35. What about MASC, the replacement for AEW? Add another £Bn, at least. There isn't much point designing a carrier if you don't even know if one of the main self protection assets is going to be rotary or fixed wing. If they don't make a decision soon, I can foresee the first carrier still having Sea King, (and Merlin ASW) and then having to go in for refit when MASC arrives. A bit of a mess if you ask me.
  3. It's not even confirmed that it will get the F-35/JSF.

    Backup plan is navalised Typhoons!
  4. It's a God-awful mess and no mistake. Latest rumour control has a final decision whether to order them or not in October, following the Comprehensive Spending Review. But there's been many a deadline missed in the past. Amazing to think CVF was first proposed in the SDR nine years ago! For a full discussion see
  5. As you know, the Mayan calendar ends in 2012. Less well known is that the last characters on it are the enigmatic "ISDCVF(R01)"...
  6. Now we all know that managing the massive and highly complicated defence procurement budget of the United kingdom is a complex and largely thankless task. In addition to the thousands of service personnel involved, there are more civil servants than you can shake a stick at and of course the serried ranks of the defence contractors, darkening our skies with wingtips.

    Daily they face the challenges, going out to their often unsavory tasks. They work in conditions, not always of the plushest. They are faced with constraints of money, time and space. It is indeed a noble endeavour. Without them what would our service personnel use?

    Having said all of that, with due respect to the people employed, their commanders, leaders and masters...why do they have to go about it in such a cnutish way? Brewery owners stand aghast at the lack of capability to organise a refreshment session, despite their offer of full use of their facilities.

    ISD is a movable feast. Oh yes the initial date is always "met" but the actual character of the capability 2in service" on that date can range from an allocated but empty mooring position to full operational capability (don't get me started on that defnition either!).

    Frankly the CVF programme is a clusterfcuk. I had a privileged insight into it earlier last year. I was shown the "plan", I was shown the "real" "progress" and I was shown the was enough to make an archbishop kick a hole in a stained glass window.
  7. Did occur to me today that one good reason for slipping from 2012 to 2015+ for the first one is that HMG has to find the money for the Olympics from somewhere. And where better than eroding future defence capability? After all, if Olympic Stadium isn't ready on Day One -- disaster! But aircraft carriers years late? Who'd notice? No chance of us having to fight someone nasty in the next decade, is there?
  8. Funny how the worst opponents come along when nations are the least prepared for them though...
  9. Lots of intangibles here... Is the basic design of the aircraft flexible enough to accomodate a change from STOVL (F-35) to conventional (navalised Typhoon - Gawd help us)? If a rotorcraft AEW aircraft is selected, what is the impact over an E-2 or similar?

    I've got pretty good experience of government projects where requirements change. They don't deliver what you wanted, cost way more, and arrive horrendously late. This is what we are going to get.
  10. would a navalised take away a bit of the p!sed of stuff about how much it cost... it could heal some of the EF's hardships??

    i mean spend all this money of an aircraft bosed to be the best thing since the TV, then both the RAF and navy plan to buy the JSF and the RAF also to EF aswell... correct me if im wrong but apart from the 'supersonic harrier' bit they both have the same multi-role use... plus the EF already has a shorter than normal take-off, add that with a sling-shot take off would get it in the air pretty fast
  11. Navalised Typhoon would be hugely expensive and probably not feasable anyway. The idea was only ever mooted to try to get the JSF source codes out of the US (who of course saw through the ruse immediately). Basically if F35B dies (or the UK doesn't buy it) then CVF dies with it.
  12. Watch the new Die Hard flick. Bruce Willis gets chased by one. If it's anything like it is in the film, I want one.
  13. Cow

    Cow LE

    Its got some mad moving bits hasn't it!? looks wicked, Shame the film wasn't that good.
  14. Couldn't they just buy other aircraft off the shelf? Hornets from USA or Rafale from the French? I hear Argentina has a load of Skyhawks that we might get a good deal on as they no longer have a carrier to fly them from. :D

    Has the decision already been made to base AEW on the Merlin helicopter? I read that E-2 could just about take off using a ski jump but it would need arrestor wires to land.
  15. iran still has some f14s so when the carriers surrender