Is vetting as strict for a regular soldier as an officer?

MR_R_SOLE

Old-Salt
No you said that they would be a outlier.
The definition of outlier is

a person or thing situated away or detached from the main body or system.
"a western outlier in the Andaman archipelago"
  • a person or thing differing from all other members of a particular group or set.








    So if being different from ALL OTHERS. Would imply that they would be alone. I have informed you that this is not the case as thier are a reasonable number of ORs with Degrees.
 

Brotherton Lad

LE
Kit Reviewer
No you said that they would be a outlier.
The definition of outlier is

a person or thing situated away or detached from the main body or system.
"a western outlier in the Andaman archipelago"
  • a person or thing differing from all other members of a particular group or set.








    So if being different from ALL OTHERS. Would imply that they would be alone. I have informed you that this is not the case as thier are a reasonable number of ORs with Degrees.

How many recruits join the Infantry as a soldier with a degree?
 
So your Experience regarding ORs with degrees is a little out of date then?
At no point during this have you provided evidence so back up your claims.

My point is that you are wrong in the statement that being a OR in the infantry with a degree is something of a oddity.
As I responded this is not the case and more and more people are joining the teeth arms with these qualifications.
I shall put your lack of formulated response down to the fact that you are quite clearly talking from experience some time ago.

But once again in today's Army being A Guardsman/ Rifelman/ Private with a degree is not unusall and would not make you some sort of oddity.
thanks to B-LIAR every muppet has a pointless degree
 

MR_R_SOLE

Old-Salt
Doubtless it isn't nowadays, but even twenty years ago it would be at the top-end of the bell-curve of infantry recruits; slightly lower now, but really from the changing general standard of entry-level recruits to all walks of employment. I doubt, though, that STEM graduates feature highly in the numbers entering the infantry - specialist Corps, perhaps. In my later years of service (left in 94) I met any number of JNCOs who were graduates, including some seriously bright people with hard qualifications. One of my Corporals had two degrees; Law and English, and had CPL too, which was useful for getting to the Isle of Man for the weekend, while another was a fully-flowered psychologist. My own personal drop-out rate was 100%, and so had to do some book-learnin later on in life. You're right about Para Regt; possibly counter-intuitively, I met more graduates there and in the Marines than in any other infantry regiment. Only possibly. I have home defence.

Yes I get that 20 years ago being a OR with a degree was very much a oddity.
But seeing as the nice young chap that serves me my morning coffee in Costa has a masters in History. I think we can safely assume that having a degree is not anything special nowdays
 
20 years ago being a OR with a degree was very much a oddity.
No; I think you've missed a point there. Not an oddity, but certainly an 'outlier' in statistical terms. I think you may be arguing against yourself here.
"...having a degree is not anything special nowdays... " Not in any non-STEM subject, certainly. Pity, really.
 
I think it is fair to say that most infantry soldiers do not have degrees but considering the ease at BA can be achieved (pay money and turn up), plenty of people have them. Far more than 30 years ago. I think only now, since the fees went up are the number of graduates beginning to drop.

To the OP, why dont you try the RM? or, god forbid, the RAF Regt if you really want to be an officer? You may never live down being an RAF Regt officer but you could potentially get your experience that way and try another way into the army later.

If you go in as an OR, the chances of getting into Sandhurst via that route are pretty low, about 8% judging from a stat posted earlier.
 

MR_R_SOLE

Old-Salt
How many across the Infantry joining the Army?
I'm sorry but I don't understand what you are asking?
Are you asking from that intake who was joining the Infantry? All 40 odd.
If your asking how many are going the Infantry each year with a degree. I am afraid to say that I don't know the exact percentage.
I have never claimed to all I did was offer some anecdotal evidence that being a OR with a degree in the infantry is no where near as unusual as it used to be. I also offered a different opinion to yours that having a degree would make the OP a outlier.
Can I ask when was the last time you spoke to a Infantry Battalion?
Even better when was the last time you polled the ORs to see what level of education they had?
 

Brotherton Lad

LE
Kit Reviewer
I think it is fair to say that most infantry soldiers do not have degrees but considering the ease at BA can be achieved (pay money and turn up), plenty of people have them. Far more than 30 years ago. I think only now, since the fees went up are the number of graduates beginning to drop.

To the OP, why dont you try the RM? or, god forbid, the RAF Regt if you really want to be an officer? You may never live down being an RAF Regt officer but you could potentially get your experience that way and try another way into the army later.

If you go in as an OR, the chances of getting into Sandhurst via that route are pretty low, about 8% judging from a stat posted earlier.

I posted that 8% of the current intake are former ORs. Now compound that with the fact that less than a quarter of applicants to AOSB actually pass selection (first time round) and the obvious obstacles for a soldier to even arrive at AOSB you can see that the ones who get to Sandhurst have already shown a great deal of drive.
 

MR_R_SOLE

Old-Salt
No; I think you've missed a point there. Not an oddity, but certainly an 'outlier' in statistical terms. I think you may be arguing against yourself here.
"...having a degree is not anything special nowdays... " Not in any non-STEM subject, certainly. Pity, really.
I think you are correct in the Non STEM subjects.
I mearly took offence to the sweeping statement that having a degree when joining would make you a outlier. I can't speak for the Line regiments but the Guards and PARA reg have quite a few. Certainly to many to make someone a outlier even in a statistical sense.
 
having a degree when joining would make you a outlier.
But I think it probably does. I've no figures to hand to back that up (and a quick search doesn't help), but most of the point is that a soldier isn't required to have degree-level qualifications, and most soldiers don't have them (recruitment currently being targeted at other sectors and 'communities' in society in order to fulfil political aims rather than operational needs, for instance). Higher educational qualifications tend to lead their holders into career routes which fulfil their vocational needs; money, status, philanthropy, whatever. Very few medical students graduate and go into bricklaying; it's not their dream. Not too many particle physicists dream of bayonetting Japs or Frenchmen, and so the few who do are 'outliers'.

I'm sure that there are academic papers showing the curves and figures, but it's not much of a productive exercise to go hunting for them if your only purpose is to feed an emotive statement made here. Tertiary education, like the rest of our society, has changed under the demands of the economy and societal perception continually, and not for the better much of the time. I wouldn't pursue the subject. To the OP, go for it if you've considered your possible options in ten years' time.
 

MR_R_SOLE

Old-Salt
But I think it probably does. I've no figures to hand to back that up (and a quick search doesn't help), but most of the point is that a soldier isn't required to have degree-level qualifications, and most soldiers don't have them (recruitment currently being targeted at other sectors and 'communities' in society in order to fulfil political aims rather than operational needs, for instance). Higher educational qualifications tend to lead their holders into career routes which fulfil their vocational needs; money, status, philanthropy, whatever. Very few medical students graduate and go into bricklaying; it's not their dream. Not too many particle physicists dream of bayonetting Japs or Frenchmen, and so the few who do are 'outliers'.

I'm sure that there are academic papers showing the curves and figures, but it's not much of a productive exercise to go hunting for them if your only purpose is to feed an emotive statement made here. Tertiary education, like the rest of our society, has changed under the demands of the economy and societal perception continually, and not for the better much of the time. I wouldn't pursue the subject. To the OP, go for it if you've considered your possible options in ten years' time.

A well thought out and articulate response.
I take your point on board and will admit that perhaps my vantage point may be quite unique in terms of the percentage of ORs that have a degree. After all the Guards are quite unique in role so maybe we attract more Degree holders because
1, If you wish to be in the public eye. Whilst also doing the green stuff it's the only Division that will fullfill your wants. Also has the added benefit of being able to moisten a women's gusset at 50 paces.
2, Of those who earn a Degree and wish to join the Household Division. A great deal may be put off from the Officer route due to the Not too untrue stereotype "Guards Officer". Therefore joining as OR's.


P.S to the OP go for it. The chances are you won't be the only OR with Degree Level qualification. Not too mention that Joining as ORs have certain benefits. Like not having to be stuck behind a desk for half your career. That and as a OR is perfectly acceptable to make some scrubber air tight with 2 of your mates. I'm.not sure the Officer corps would approve of such shenanigans.
Oh and what ever regiment you decide upon never ever refer to Other ranks as Ordinary Soilders. Doing so may result in a swift right hook from your mates and make you appear to be a bit of a bitter wannabe Officer.

Good luck in what ever you choose.
 
A well thought out and articulate response.
I take your point on board and will admit that perhaps my vantage point may be quite unique in terms of the percentage of ORs that have a degree. After all the Guards are quite unique in role so maybe we attract more Degree holders because
1, If you wish to be in the public eye. Whilst also doing the green stuff it's the only Division that will fullfill your wants. Also has the added benefit of being able to moisten a women's gusset at 50 paces.
2, Of those who earn a Degree and wish to join the Household Division. A great deal may be put off from the Officer route due to the Not too untrue stereotype "Guards Officer". Therefore joining as OR's.


P.S to the OP go for it. The chances are you won't be the only OR with Degree Level qualification. Not too mention that Joining as ORs have certain benefits. Like not having to be stuck behind a desk for half your career. That and as a OR is perfectly acceptable to make some scrubber air tight with 2 of your mates. I'm.not sure the Officer corps would approve of such shenanigans.
Oh and what ever regiment you decide upon never ever refer to Other ranks as Ordinary Soilders. Doing so may result in a swift right hook from your mates and make you appear to be a bit of a bitter wannabe Officer.

Good luck in what ever you choose.
Yep, bruv.
 

Sean23

Swinger
I think it is fair to say that most infantry soldiers do not have degrees but considering the ease at BA can be achieved (pay money and turn up), plenty of people have them. Far more than 30 years ago. I think only now, since the fees went up are the number of graduates beginning to drop.

To the OP, why dont you try the RM? or, god forbid, the RAF Regt if you really want to be an officer? You may never live down being an RAF Regt officer but you could potentially get your experience that way and try another way into the army later.

If you go in as an OR, the chances of getting into Sandhurst via that route are pretty low, about 8% judging from a stat posted earlier.
I applied for the Army because that was always what I wanted to do. But when I got turned down for it I was told that I would have the same problem due to my criminal record so looking at the OR options now
 

Sean23

Swinger
A well thought out and articulate response.
I take your point on board and will admit that perhaps my vantage point may be quite unique in terms of the percentage of ORs that have a degree. After all the Guards are quite unique in role so maybe we attract more Degree holders because
1, If you wish to be in the public eye. Whilst also doing the green stuff it's the only Division that will fullfill your wants. Also has the added benefit of being able to moisten a women's gusset at 50 paces.
2, Of those who earn a Degree and wish to join the Household Division. A great deal may be put off from the Officer route due to the Not too untrue stereotype "Guards Officer". Therefore joining as OR's.


P.S to the OP go for it. The chances are you won't be the only OR with Degree Level qualification. Not too mention that Joining as ORs have certain benefits. Like not having to be stuck behind a desk for half your career. That and as a OR is perfectly acceptable to make some scrubber air tight with 2 of your mates. I'm.not sure the Officer corps would approve of such shenanigans.
Oh and what ever regiment you decide upon never ever refer to Other ranks as Ordinary Soilders. Doing so may result in a swift right hook from your mates and make you appear to be a bit of a bitter wannabe Officer.

Good luck in what ever you choose.
Thanks man (Sir!???)

I am sure I will go for it. You make ORs seem the way to go!

Oh and thanks for the advice about what to say. Dont want eo do anything to ruin my good looks!!
 

Beachdaze2

Clanker
AGAI Vol2 Chap 41 Policy for Recruitment and Enlistment / Commisioning of personnel with Criminal Convictions.

Para 41.029 The standards required for selection for commisioning are considerably higher than for those for enlistment as a soldier. Additional details for commisioning are contained at Annex B

Annex B is wordy, however, “in all cases if the conviction is spent it may not be considered (less for vetting purposes via Cerberus when completing online Security Vetting)”.

Random pixels on the web :)
Serious question - why are the standards higher for those going for a commission ? What difference does it make?
 
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