Is torture somtimes justified?

Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by Livin_on_a_prayer, Jun 4, 2006.

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  1. Yes, somtimes sacrifices must be made to help the greater good

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  2. Yes, but only in extream circumstances

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  3. No, torture is never acceptable

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  4. Not sure

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  1. In todays world where intelligence is vital in protecting and saving lives, do think it is somtimes nessessary to use torture to gain vital information where national security and lives are at risk. I dont mean vicious and brutal torture, I mean mild forms of psycological and somtimes physical torture. I mean, lets say hypothetically, that someone had a explosive device somewhere in London that could kill 100,000's of people, would it be justified to gain that information through torture? Think carefully
     
  2. I think it's important to distinguish betwen 'right' and 'necessary'.

    Torture is never right. It has a huge impact on the victim, the torturer and the society that consents to it, but like many distasteful things, it is sometimes necessary. By never thinking of it as right or acceptable and always as a distastefully abhorent abuse of human rights, we can avoid the risk of getting caught in a trap of no limits on use, and no boundaries to its extent and the endless philosiphising that comes with it.

    It's a simple fact that there are situations, extreme unthinkable situations, where torture will be the only method of obtaining information to save lives and it's up to us to ensure that then, and only then, is it used.

    It doesn't make it right though, just necessary.
     
  3. Yes your right, I think though that although it has a huge impact on the victim, they can end it at anytime, by simplying giving away the information. Ofcourse by not doing that they are possibly causing the deaths of people which is also totally unacceptable and wrong, the probably is how is it carried out, somtimes the victim has nothing to give and the torturers somtimes do not want answers.
     
  4. Sixty

    Sixty LE Moderator Book Reviewer
    1. ARRSE Cyclists and Triathletes

    No. Torture is never right nor justified.
     
  5. Torture is never justified
     
  6. A moral dilemma indeed.

    I’d have to say “yes” with a “but”.

    If we had captured one of the monsters involved in 9/11 or the 7/7 bombings before they had happened and had sufficient intel to know that those we had captured could of told us something to prevent those attacks happening – then yes I could justify torture or possibly even murder if it could have prevented those attacks.

    But how can you ever truly be sure that those your torturing are not actually innocent, or so far down the food chain that they don’t know anything useful.
     
  7. It can't be justified. We have to avoid lowering ourselves to the level of those that behead innocent hostages.

    Besides, I'd swear that my real name was Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and I used to fist my own mother whilst being spanked by a midget on a goat, if you started bringing a knife towards my testicles.
     
  8. This discussion is problematic as we haven't really decided what torture is.

    Blasting someone with white noise, placing them in stress positions and drugging them up to the nines is markedly different from breaking someone's shins, bum-raping them and rubbing excrement in their faces.

    Yet both are catergorically grouped as torture because something harmful is inflicted on someone without their consent.

    Torture, like its use, is not in my mind an absolutism.
     
  9. torture and human rights don't go together . Those who use terrorist tactics don't deserve human rights and anything that will protect the law abiding should be acceptable.
     
  10. Yes, but what if the person you're torturing turns out not to be a terrorist after all, but was just in the wrong place at the wrong time? That means that torture used to protect the law abiding may accidentally be used against them.
     
  11. Sixty

    Sixty LE Moderator Book Reviewer
    1. ARRSE Cyclists and Triathletes

    Not awfully ambiguous is it?
     
  12. Does torture actually work?
     
  13. As far as I'm aware, the effectiveness of torture through pain or humiliation is somewhat limited as people often end up telling the torturer exactly what they want to hear, just so it will stop.

    Torture by coercion, confusion or with the use of drugs has been shown to be somewhat more effective, although easier to resist by effective training techniques.
     
  14. It all boils down to how strong the will power of the chap being tortured is.
     
  15. What about all them Catholics/Protestants, that decided to burn rather than renounce their faith? Torture clearly didn't work on them.