Is this what FAS will Look like.

Discussion in 'Infantry' started by Styron, Oct 15, 2004.

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    Guards Division (5 Regular Battalions)

    1st Battalion Guards Regiment (Grenadier)

    2nd Battalion Guards Regiment (Coldstream)

    3rd Battalion Guards Regiment (Scots)

    4th Battalion Guards Regiment (Irish)

    5th Battalion Guards Regiment (Welsh)

    The Scottish Division (5 Battalions)

    1st Battalion Royal Scottish Regiment (Royal Scots and Borderers)

    2nd Battalion Royal Scottish Regiment (Royal Highland Fusiliers)

    3rd Battalion Royal Scottish Regiment (The Black Watch)

    4th Battalion Royal Scottish Regiment (The Highlanders)

    5th Battalion Royal Scottish Regiment (The Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders)

    The Queens Division (6 Battalions)

    1st Battalion The Princess of Wales’s Regiment

    2nd Battalion The Princess of Wales’s Regiment

    1st Battalion The Royal Regiment of Fusiliers

    2nd Battalion The Royal Regiment of Fusiliers

    1st Battalion The Royal Anglian Regiment

    2nd Battalion The Royal Anglian Regiment

    The King’s Division (5 Battalions)

    1st Battalion Royal Lancashire Borderers (King’s and Borderers)

    2nd Battalion Royal Lancashire Borderers (Queen’s Lancashire)

    1st Battalion Royal Yorkshire Regiment (Prince of Wales’s)

    2nd Battalion Royal Yorkshire Regiment (Duke of Wellington’s)

    3rd Battalion Royal Yorkshire Regiment (Green Howard’s)

    The Prince of Wales Division (6 Battalions)

    1st Battalion Royal Wessex Regiment (Devon and Dorset)

    2nd Battalion Royal Wessex Regiment (Gloucestershire, Berkshire and Wiltshire)

    1st Battalion Royal Mercian Regiment (Worcestershire and Sherwood Forresters)

    2nd Battalion Royal Mercian Regiment (Cheshire and Staffordshire)

    1st Battalion Royal Welsh Regiment (Welch Fusiliers)

    2nd Battalion Royal Welsh Regiment (Regiment of Wales)

    The Light Division (6 Battalions)

    1st Battalion The Light Infantry

    2nd Battalion The Light Infantry

    1st Battalion Royal Green Jackets

    2nd Battalion Royal Green Jackets

    1st Battalion Royal Gurkha Rifles

    2nd Battalion Royal Gurkha Rifles

    The Parachute Regiment (3 Battalions)

    1st Battalion The Parachute Regiment

    2nd Battalion The Parachute Regiment

    3rd Battalion The Parachute Regiment
  2. Close, but the Household div won't be renamed - not whilst all the old duffers in London District are around :)

    Can't see us going to 1 Bn of Gurkhas or RIrish either

    Also you'll need 'Armoured', 'Mechanized' and 'Light' in brackets too {} these ones look nice or perhaps[ ] or < >


  3. I would actually prefer to see the Gurkha's and RIR to go in the review and an extra third battalion added to the RGJ and LI.

    Although this would be difficult as it would mean upsetting the Sultan of Brunei who funds one of the Gurkha Battalions and it would also mean replacing the RIR with other battalions in NI.
  4. Sorry, I don't understand your logic. Presumably by RIR you mean the Royal Irish Regiment. This thread is about Regular Army Infantry Battalions. R IRISH have one such Battalion, which is not serving in NI.
  5. Here's the Current Army

    Organisation of the Infantry

    Divisions of Infantry

    The "Division" of Infantry is an organisation that is responsible for all aspects of military administration, from recruiting, manning and promotions for individuals in the regiments under its wing, to the longer term planning required to ensure continuity and coheesion. Divisions of Infantry have no operational command over their regiments, and should not be confused with the remaining operational divisions, such as 1(UK) Armoured Division and 3(UK) Division.

    The Administritive "Divisions" of Infantry are as follows:

    The Guards Division
    5 Regular battalions

    1st Battalion Grenadier Guards

    1st Battalion Coldstream Guards

    1st Battalion Scots Guards

    1st Battalion Irish Guards

    1st Battalion Welsh Guards

    The Scottish Division
    6 Regular battalions

    The Royal Scots

    The Royal Highland Fusiliers

    The Kings Own Scottish Borderers

    The Black Watch

    The Highlanders

    The Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders

    The Queen's Division
    6 Regular battalions

    1st Battalion The Princess of Wales' Regiment

    2nd Battalion The Princess of Wales' Regiment

    1st Battalion The Royal Regiment of Fusiliers

    2nd Battalion The Royal Regiment of Fusiliers

    1st Battalion The Royal Anglian Regiment

    2nd Battalion The Royal Anglian Regiment

    The King's Division
    6 Regular battalions

    1st Battalion The King's Own Royal Border Regiment

    1st Battalion The King's Regiment

    1st Battalion The Prince of Wales Regiment of Yorkshire

    1st Battalion The Green Howards

    1st Battalion The Queen's Lancashire Regiment

    1st The Duke of Wellington's Regiment

    The Prince of Wales Division
    7 Regular battalions

    1st Battalion The Devon and Dorset Regiment

    1st Battalion The Cheshire Regiment

    1st Battalion The Royal Welch Fusiliers

    1st Battalion The Royal Regiment of Wales

    1st Battalion The Royal Gloucestershire, Berkshire and Wiltshire Regiment

    1st Battalion The Worcestershire and Sherwood Forresters Regiment

    1st Battalion The Staffordshire Regiment

    The Light Division
    4 Regular battalions

    1st Battalion The Light Infantry

    2nd Battalion The Light Infantry

    1st Battalion The Royal Green Jackets

    2nd Battalion The Royal Green Jackets

    Not administered by "Divisions" of Infantry but operating under their own similar administrative arrangements are as follows:

    The Parachute Regiment
    3 Regular battalions

    1st Battalion The Parachute Regiment

    2nd Battalion The Parachute Regiment

    3rd Battalion The Parachute Regiment

    The Brigade of Gurkhas
    2 Regular battalions

    1st Battalion The Royal Gurkha Rifles

    2nd Battalion The Royal Gurkha Rifles

    The Royal Irish Regiment
    1 Regular battalion

    1st Battalion The Royal Irish Regiment

    Actually I would scrap the Royal Irish Regiment and leave the two gurkha battalions then.
  6. I get the feeling you don't like the Royal Irish Regiment?
    Presumably you are not basing your argument on seniority, or the fact that they are at the bottom of your list.
  7. Not sure where this "Lancashire Borderers" comes from. Borderers is a Scottish thing. See KOSB. The Border Regiment in its past or present form have never been Borderers.
  8. Scottish, and Welsh - South Wales Borderers
  9. King's Own Royal Border Regiment is English and is the local regiment of Cumbria, the Lancashire Borderers or perhaps even King's Own Lancashire Borderers is apparently the name chosen for the new North West Regiment,
    the article below is from the Cumberland Mail and Star, and the other article is a story from the Telegraph. The regiment will consist of The King's Regiment, QLR and KOBR.

    The FULL Story...
    Published on 08/10/2004

    By Chris Musson

    THE death knell was sounded for the King’s Own Royal Border Regiment this week after a meeting of Army colonels from across the North of England.

    Only the unlikely intervention of the Defence Secretary can now save the 300-year-old regiment from being amalgamated with the Queen’s Lancashire Regiment and the King’s Regiment of Manchester and Liverpool.

    It is not yet clear if the historic Border name will survive, as the three regiments must now thrash out the make-up of the new “super regiment” between themselves, in what promises to be a difficult diplomatic process.

    The Queen’s Lancashire Regiment has already set out its stall – it says the new regiment would be made up mainly of Lancashire or Old Lancashire regiments, and therefore the Red Rose county should dominate any new name.

    The reshuffle, as part of the defence review announced by the Government in July, is expected to take place by 2008.

    Currently the three North West regiments each have one infantry battalion of 650 troops when at full strength.

    At the Council of Colonels meeting in London’s Army and Navy Club, KORBR’s Colonel Mike Griffiths reluctantly agreed that his troops would become part of a single North West regiment with just two battalions.

    The reduction in troops will come through natural wastage over the next four years and by soldiers being deployed to other regiments either permanently or through extra-regimental duties.

    Another plan to merge all six Northern regiments – three either side of the Pennines – was shelved, and the meeting concluded that Yorkshire’s three battalions remain intact as another super regiment.

    KORBR’s Colonel Simon Strickland said: “The provisional decision was that three battalions would remain in Yorkshire, and two in the North West.

    “We are in negotiations now for an amalgamation with the Queen’s Lancashire Regiment and the King’s Regiment (Liverpool).

    “This was based on a whole range of factors, including population, recruitment potential, history, previous amalgamations, and other factors.

    “The actual decision on details for the new North West regiment is not confirmed, although there are proposals being put forward.”

    Colonel Strickland was reluctant to reveal names being discussed for the super regiment and its battalions, though it is understood KORBR will press for the retention of its name in some form.

    But the discussions are likely to be fraught with tension. Already the Queen’s Lancashire Regiment has made its position plain, saying its name must remain. Spokesman Roger Goodwin argued that six-sevenths of the three regiments’ total recruits are from Lancashire or Old Lancashire.

    He said: “The QLR will insist the special and specific relationship with the county of Lancashire is maintained. That will include the title and the Red Rose of Lancashire as the cap badge. That is not for debate.”

    Last night, KORBR chiefs were meeting in London to talk tactics on how the 300-year-old regiment can retain its identity.

    They will argue with the other two North West regiments that KORBR is the most senior regiment out of the three, and that recruiting from Cumbria will be near-impossible without a title linking to the Border country. But the others will cite their own long histories and battle honours and that KORBR has been consistently below strength and has struggled to recruit soldiers.

    A date for a meeting between the three regiments has yet to be set.

    Previously one super regiment with five battalions, stretching across a giant swathe of the North, had been favoured by KORBR chiefs and also its soldiers, who are currently based in Luffenham, Leicestershire. The Northern colonels’ plans are now being rubber-stamped and have to be passed to the Army Board by October 27.

    They will then be submitted to Defence Secretary Geoff Hoon, who is likely to make his final decision before Christmas.

    The News & Star’s Save KORBR petition, presented to Downing Street last month, was signed by 30,000 people. It asks that the regiment remains as it is, or if not, that the name remains as part of a new
  10. Hoon wins his regimental campaign

    Defence Secretary gets his Army reforms and his backers say they will bring more stability to soldiers' families. Michael Smith reports

    Reforms of the British Army to amalgamate all 19 single-battalion famous name regiments will see the formation of seven regionally based multi-battalion regiments.

    Gen Sir Mike Jackson, Chief of General Staff, believes the creation of multi-battalion regiments will maximise both the retention of such soldiers and efficiency.

    His reforms will signal the end of the arms plot, the complicated scheme under which Army regiments are rotated between roles, moving every few years to new bases.

    They will see one battalion of a regiment based in the region from which it recruits, something that was deemed impossible under the arms plot, while the other is based in Germany.

    The move will replicate the Cardwell reforms, instituted in the 1870s, which divided Britain into 69 regimental districts, permanently basing one of the battalions at home while the second served in India.

    Geoff Hoon, the Defence Secretary, has pushed his two previous Chiefs of General Staff to make such reforms but has been rebuffed because of the effect on the regimental system.

    "There has always been the feeling that if you get rid of the arms plot you get rid of the regimental system," one senior officer said. "But that's not true at all."

    The single-battalion regiments will keep their names, he said, albeit only as a subordinate part of their titles. The Royal Scots would for example become 1st Battalion (The Royal Scots) the Lowland Regiment.

    They will also be allowed to keep their individual traditions within the battalion and will continue to wear their own mess dress and Number 1 dress uniform, which are in the distinctive regimental colours.

    It remains unclear what regions the new regiments would cover but the most likely option is the Highlands and Lowlands in Scotland, Wales, Yorkshire, Lancashire and Cumbria, the Midlands and Wessex.

    Under such a scheme, the Royal Highland Fusiliers, the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders, the Black Watch and the Highlanders would be merged into a single two-battalion Highland Regiment.

    The Royal Scots and the King's Own Scottish Borderers would become a two-battalion Lowland Regiment.

    The King's Own Border Regiment, the King's Regiment and the Queen's Lancashire Regiment would become a single Lancashire and Border Regiment. It is unclear whether it would have two or three battalions.

    A similar situation exists in Yorkshire where the Prince of Wales's Own Regiment, the Green Howards and the Duke of Wellington's would be amalgamated into a two or three-battalion Yorkshire Regiment.

    In Wales, the Royal Welch Fusiliers and the Royal Regiment of Wales would combine to form a two-battalion Welsh Regiment.

    The Devonshire and Dorset Regiment would merge with the Royal Gloucestershire, Berkshire and Wiltshire Regiment to form a two-battalion Wessex Regiment.

    The Cheshire Regiment, the Worcestershire and Sherwood Foresters Regiment, and the Staffordshire Regiment would be merged into a two or three-battalion Mercian Regiment.

    East Anglia, the South-East and southern England are already represented by two multi-battalioned regiments, the Royal Anglians and the Princess of Wales Royal Regiment.

    Although the loss of the individual regiments is bound to cause an uproar, Army chiefs say the abolition of the arms plot will bring a major improvement to both efficiency and manning.

    The current constant moving of regiments from base to base causes massive disruption to the lives of soldiers and their families, with wives and partners forced to lose their jobs and children to move schools.

    The long-term effect has been a regular exodus of the highly experienced married NCOs and promising junior officers who the Army is anxious to keep. The new system will provide a permanent home base that will allow married soldiers to give their families stability
  11. Styron,

    Your Bns add up to the current 40, which would be excellent indeed, but, there are 4 up for the chop I'm afraid.
  12. Styron

    Not saying you were wrong to re-post that weeks-old Daily Telegraph article, of course it is relevant, but by again posting it without mentioning the date you are in danger of giving people the impression it is "new news".

    As already pointed out it is also wrong ref the Scottish Division, apart from anything else the RHF is not a Highland Regiment.
  13. They add up to 36 as it is the first post you should count, latter posts reflect the present infantry structure.

    There are definately 36 Battalions in the first post as I have just counted them to make sure.

    As for the article it dates back to the end of August and although they have decided on one Scottish super regiment rather than a highland and lowlland.

    However the regionalisation of the army remains an objective of FAS and therefore the reorganisation of the English Regiments will without a doubt reflect this.
  14. 5 out of the worst 7 recruited Bns are Scottish. How come they only lose 1 Bn whilst Kings Div loses 2?
  15. The desecration of the Infantry is bad enough however there has been little comment on the demise of the Arms Plot.

    Most soldiers will now spend their whole career in one posting. No one location is very good in the long term. All the experience built up through years of training and fighting around the globe just gone. Bns will become absolutely specialist. Can you imagine a whole career as Demo Bn in Warminster. And they reckon this will help recruiting and retention. B*llox.

    If the Govt were serious about improving the soldier (and his family)'s lot they would reduce comittments or increase the size of the Army. What a great reward for consistently dragging BLiars arrse out of the fire.